Podcast E21: Female Sexuality
In podcast episode E21, "Female Sexuality - A Man's Perspective," Sune Sloth examines female sexuality based on his own experience and understanding. He presents a perspective that challenges traditional views and sheds light on the complexity of women's sexual experiences.
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Women's Sexuality is Complex: Sune emphasizes that women's sexuality is far more complex than often assumed. He argues that it cannot be reduced to simple categories or simplifications.
Surrender and Permission: During sex, the woman's frontal lobe, which controls logical thinking and control, is largely inactive. This means that she is in a state of surrender and permission.
Communication During Sex Can Be Inhibiting: Trying to talk to a woman about her preferences during sex can shut down her experience, as it brings her out of that state of surrender.
Women's Sexuality is Fluid: Studies show that women can experience physical arousal from a wide range of sexual stimuli. This may indicate that women's sexuality is more open and fluid than often assumed.
Seduction and Conditioning: Men are often conditioned to be attracted to specific forms of seduction from women.
Men's Sexuality is Often Goal-Oriented: The man's focus on penetration and orgasm can create a feeling that he is goal-oriented in his approach to sex, while the woman's experience is more nuanced.
The Need to Understand the Other's Sexuality: Sune points out that it is essential for a couple to understand and respect each other's sexual needs and preferences in order to achieve a satisfying sex life.
Women Can Initiate Men into New Experiences: When the woman feels seen, met and respected in her sexuality, she can open up to new experiences for the man and challenge his fixed patterns.
Sexuality as Transformation: Sune sees women's sexuality as a transformative force that can heal and open up to deeper levels of love and consciousness.
The Importance of Interest and Presence: To understand female sexuality, it is crucial that the man shows genuine interest and presence. He must be willing to listen, observe and respond to her subtle cues.
Sune's Perspective on Female Sexuality:
Sune's reflections on women's sexuality provide an interesting insight into how men can work to understand and appreciate the feminine energy in the sexual sphere. He calls for a more nuanced and respectful approach that recognizes the complexity and transformative potential of female sexuality.
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Translated transcript of the original Danish podcast
Hosts: Sune Sloth & Mette Miriam Sloth
I want to start by saying that and that's really what I really want to address to men so if they can use something.
Mhm.
That it really starts with basic knowledge about how does the female body work, you know, I was born in 73, so I grew up in a nudist family, where it was natural to be naked, and the female body is natural in that sense.
Mm.
And what I have, the first thing I learnt, is that she works differently. Her orgasm curve is different. It's Masters and Johnson original their old studio. Mm.
Um, it's also something about familiarising yourself with how her uh of her clitic is only part of her genitals. But it actually goes all the way up into the vagina, and there are sensory nerves all the way up. And then I realise, well, at first I think she's only kind of here in zones, but then over time I realise, well, the whole body can be there if she's there. And I've learnt that at this point I'm starting to get wiser about it and find out that her mood, where she is right now, is important for whether she wants to open up sexually to a man. But what I've learnt is that I've realised that the man comes way too quickly in the first place, gets too excited. And then she doesn't get anything out of it. And that's when I realise that she needs to be prepared in the traditional way. And I realise that, and what I also found out through the Masters Johnson study, is that women are different, so one way of touching a woman is not necessarily the same as another woman. So some like to be squeezed hard from breast sites and others very gently. Some like to be licked one way and some don't like to be licked that way. So that's kind of the approach m
approach to it.
So it starts with curiosity about what the woman is like. So that's the beginning, right?
Mm.
And it's such a blind groping in the dark. It's something about, it's trial and error.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
At some point I realise that she has an orgasm cycle. I start reading up on what signs you can read, the clearing, the chest and the breathing and how she shoots back, and she has some instincts to kind of squeeze together when she's close to coming, and she clings to you and things like that. So it becomes very at this point it becomes very tight technically.
Mm.
So it's something about reading her.
Mm.
And getting good at reading her. Because I also find out that uh I read a study of about uh couples having sex in an MRI scanner and find out that her frontal is basically not functioning when she is sex. That is to say that her control is non-existent. So she's a surrender.
Mm.
In a permission. And there I also realise that talking to her during sex about what she likes shuts her down. And now I start to understand why. And then I start reading up on oxescin and find out that there is a bonding hormone that creates, which has a biological basis in relationship formation.
Mm.
Later I find out that the man also has it, but to a lesser degree, at least initially, on average.
Mm.
I realise that when she comes with a man, she'll probably want to have sex with him again. So I become a bit calculating and think, okay, the goal is to at least make her want to have sex with me again. So it becomes a very technical perception of how she works.
Are you thinking about the heart here?
Uh, those are leading questions. Um, I'm very confused. about it at this point.
Yeah, I'm very confused about that at this point.
Um, because actually the women I've met have actually, um, I've experienced longing as a man too and fantasising about what it could be like to be in a relationship with a woman and become very preoccupied and very searching and things like you also describe in your book that women can be
something I don't know if other men have experienced, maybe they do, but I don't know.
I don't know.
And then I experience burning myself over and over again on women who are actually hard rejecting of not letting me in.
Mm.
And then I think, I think, that if I like them to open up sexually, they'll become more interested in me, which they do.
Mm.
So they'll want to see me again. Typically. Erm. I also realise that women at this stage are very narrow-minded. So this thing about women wanting to meet in a certain way
Mm-hm.
and there's like a labyrinth where you find your way. Through it. There may be a few more ways, but typically there will be a lot of places where she closes in. And it's not just in the sex itself. It's also everything it leads up to.
Mm.
Then I find, okay, that's the whole meeting. Um, this is the man she perceives me to be. And then I start reading up on what women want in a man in terms of research and realise, well, there are some characteristics here. Then I start working on those characteristics to say to myself, okay, it's not that I've had problems meeting women as such, but somehow there's an interest in it that goes beyond getting f***** if you like or getting laid. Somehow it becomes an ambition.
Mm.
to find out what's going on here? I can't really uh I can't really just leave it alone.
And then I get to a point where I realise that the woman can bond with me and wants to enter into a love relationship, but her sexuality is limited. That is the narrow bond, the type of touch,
um, the way I approach her. becomes more and more narrowed over time actually, or at least very narrow-minded. And I also realise that it takes a mixture of courage and being able to read her, but it also requires being able to get close to her and approach her.
Mm.
Um. So you have to have courage in it. It's like, um, there's something extremely sporty about it, because in the man, in me and we in many men, there can be a fear of rejection.
But at this point, I'm balancing between whether it should end in an orgasm and sex, but it has to take a certain amount of time and afterwards, when I talk to her gently, she has to realise that it was a delicious experience for her. So there's also a sense of ethics about her getting a wonderful experience out of it at this stage.
Mm.
So in that way, my perception of this woman is very instrumental or goal-orientated.
Mm, yes.
And that's good for me, but a woman's sexuality is just a sexuality. It's a choice of partner and where she can have is a bit square in looking for long term and short term
etc.
long-term and short-term relationships. And it's something a little different that she looks for.
Mm.
So I thought, well the ideal man, he's a combination of the two. He's a bad boy, but he also has the ability to be emotionally accessible.
Mm.
He wants the depth and so on. So at this point I realise, okay, these women are some kind of paradox here. Um. About how they have such a longing, a fantasy longing, if you like.
And what do you associate with oil water?
Yes, that's right. And that's where I also learnt, I learnt an enormous amount during that period about how women function when they don't have, you could say, their heart in it. And that's when I realise that the man she's with isn't interested in her as a person. And women can be, well, all the things you see in porn films are more or less an option. And there are women who live out their fantasies.
Mm.
And it's all too So to be linked up on crosses to be humiliated to be humiliated by everything something I've never liked. But there is someone who finds it interesting to have an extra man in the bed to have a lot of men taking them to have her have bisexual sides where the woman is more sexually fluid probably. I learnt some of this when I read up from the Institute of Medicine where they have made some measurements of blood flow on the genitals of men and women, where they ask them in advance whether they are orientated heterosexual or bisexual or homosexual.
And then you show them some porn films, and it turns out that while men are relatively familiar with their own sexual orientation, women can get blood flow with many different types of sexual stimuli. And there's a bit of doubt as to whether it's because she's protecting her own body, so to speak, by getting fluid, because something might happen to avoid injury, or whether it's because she has an open and fluid sexuality.
Mm.
But I've seen that last part in full bloom first, and participated in it, so I know it exists, but it's still a stratum. So it's a part of women who have chosen to say typically women who are in a relationship, very few single women, but typically women are in a relationship where it's not satisfying for her. And then she actually goes out and says, instead of giving up on the relationship, she gets both the bad boy on one side, and then she also gets the pressure on the other side, and then he participates to some extent or watches or whatever.
She's actually living the split.
She's living the split in her um, so she gets both the detached house um
security
the security but but intensity with her husband is actually possibly also relatively uh
absent
absent. But once she's through that, then they can find each other, and she can direct maybe her bonding back at him afterwards.
Mm. Um, and of course I have to be careful not to extrapolate this to all women, but I've certainly been out and experienced and talked to a number of those who do it in a number of different countries where I've tried it,
and also talked to their husbands
to find out how they experience their woman and what turns them on, so typically I'll talk to the man about what turns her on?
Mm.
And you could say that it's actually something about playing into her fantasy about now, which she goes and fantasises about in a safe way that still takes you by storm. She knows what's happening.
Mm.
So typically the men, if it's proper, will be a kind of teamwork where you actually know in advance how to meet her. Mm. And there will be some secret signs that she doesn't realise because she's kind of turned off and surrendered. I also learnt that if there are other men present who are uninvited, she won't be able to laugh when she's there. In other words, other men can actually push themselves. to pander to her that she wouldn't otherwise want to invite in. Um, some men take advantage of that.
Mm.
And then there's typically that, but the typical scenario is the man has already agreed in advance with who can be there. She has told him that.
Mm.
Because she's kind of incapable of making decisions in that state. So I realised how vulnerable a woman's sexuality is. Because once she's in a place where she's against speech, if you like.
She is.
Then she's not in a place where she typically closes her eyes a lot of the time.
Mm.
And surrender, give herself m
er to ecstasy or to pleasure. In this case, it's probably more pleasure than ecstasy, because there's no higher, there's no heart in it. But what I recognise here is that there is a deep vulnerability there. What I also see in these fairy tales is that one of the real risks is that the man's aggression in relation to rape has been curbed. Because there may be uninvited men watching. And in these contexts, there are very strict rules about what you can approve. Whether you're invited, and you don't go in and touch, for example, or go up close without being invited. I've seen few situations where this has happened, where I've experienced my own aggression, where I know I get on tottes with men. In other words, actually getting into a fight with them.
Mm. But it's very, very rare that it happens, because the rules are very um
controlled.
They are very controlled. And typically you can be thrown out on the spot if you break these rules.
So in a way, it's been a place where some women have actually been given the opportunity to have enormous freedom. And I would say that the woman has a lot of power, because she chooses who she wants to be with, unless this is bypassed, which happens relatively rarely.
I would say yes.
So if you don't want to go higher and if you don't have your heart in it, it's actually possible for women to explore a safe in a very safe space compared to going home with a stranger.
It's like.
Or taking two guys from the city home
Or at a bar with roofies and stuff like that, right?
It's much, much safer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Another thing I learnt during that period was that the few men who were really good at seeing, that is, seeing where women were, and meeting them like a gentleman, talking to them and then slowly transmigrating without being afraid to touch them and slowly getting closer and closer until they open up and want sex. Mm.
The men even though that environment is not meant to be an emotional bond, I saw that it didn't happen that often.
Mm.
But some of the men that women wanted them on themselves and wanted to have a relationship with them. And they don't want that, because that's not why they were there.
Mm, no.
Um. And there I also experienced the situations where it even occurred to me that the woman withdraws because she has to choose her marriage, or else it becomes and and that's the dangerous zone here.
Mm.
Um. I think I get a I can't talk about this without talking about how the man's sexuality regarding food is, and it's an unconscious over a broad struggle and a bit brain-dead, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze. And it's a lot of women have the prejudice that men will fuck anything. If they're turned on, they're willing to go low, but they'll go for the hottest thing in you. But I found that it was the intensity of the contact that was interesting, and therefore
there was something else, like no matter how young she was, it didn't matter if she wasn't present.
Mm.
And that's what I experience, that something is starting to happen here, where this becomes unsatisfactory.
Yes, that's right.
There's no consciousness in it.
Mm.
And I find that women can also experience a third party as a fantasy, for example. 10 as being in physical form for what she might have typically been interested in. Because I've talked to the man, I know she's found interest in it.
Mm.
It can be women who do something like a hotwife thing, where they
agree with the man that a strange guy is coming.
She's obviously seen him beforehand and all that.
But then they pretend that he comes by and surprises her, and then he disappears, and then suddenly he comes back in, and then there may be something to it.
Erm. But she's not interested in him as a person here. She's interested in him as a party, if you like.
Mm.
And of course there are also some possibilities in that, which actually means within that environment, the women who have explored it. Many of them were multiorgastic. Many, many of them were
Mm.
So it was a way to experience that by putting enough intensity in variation and enough men and they learn enough for that woman and she can pick them out and feel in that moment. Like the chosen one.
Mm.
Can be a without going up in frequency can be an opportunity to get in touch with an opening that doesn't go up in frequency, but circulates the energy.
Mm.
So the closedness that's in there, it's still, um, there's no one in that environment in all the years I've been in it who has, and it can, it might be there. I've just never met it, I've never really had friendships
across. You change each other because you always have to have something slightly different or you have to make a new variation, so you agree in advance, and then it has to play out in a certain way. And so there's a constant search for something new, where there are a lot of men and relatively few women. And the few women there are in relationships. And the man often becomes someone who takes advantage of a woman unless he's hot. Which most men when they reach a certain age are not attractive in it's a little different abroad with Denmark, there are many men who don't make a fuss of themselves physically and don't make an effort above a certain age and there they are allowed to take along here and there she becomes the admission ticket but it's not because she is exploited because she has completely chosen herself
mm
So we need to look at what I've learnt from it and what I've understood about women from it. Well, women can be multigastic. They may have many things to play with, but there is something in them that still ensures that there is a control that lies in the man making sure what it is that can and cannot be touched in that way. So if I touched in a certain way and it wasn't the right way, I would be corrected and directed, and some women liked it to just go crazy, so there's a kind of almost overwhelming quality to it. So it's a kind of, I think it's a kind of solution to the paradox of the dead sick couple marriage.
Um. So what happens then, and I have to come back to myself, is that I start to realise that I lack
really an experience of women being interested in land. In a way, I've become so good at it. Or it sounds a bit closer early on, but I've come to a point where I've managed to play the fantasy to some extent.
So the chase anymore is not the high point. You managed to get the chase in the bag.
Yes, I did. In the vast majority of cases it goes the way I want it to go, right?
Mm. There's actually a lot of tension in that
So, yes. So yes, that tension is there, but it goes away relatively quickly, and then you have to start again.
M.
But I realise that it's suddenly interesting where there's a connection, where there's an opening, where it can suddenly become something else.
Mm.
And that's a total departure in terms of approaching sexuality in that way. So when I meet someone who has a heart opening, where there's a connection with us, and I meet her and realise, okay, there's a heart opening, but she doesn't want to move on either, so it can hurt inside, and then I can see, okay, there needs to be a person who wants to meet me m
and who sees me for my charisma or what I bring as a person or my journey and so on. But not just the one who is also interested in seeing me when it's time to sleep.
Mm.
But also seeing my qualities and being interested in them. It's good for me that my curiosity about women and women as beings, the feminine if you will, is not reciprocated in the same way
in that environment.
But I'm not in that environment, but I'm not outside it either, because then I try dating.
Mm.
And there I experience a split between wanting long-term relationships, but being closed to the opposite, which I'm not looking for. So the steady relationship suddenly becomes, well, it goes into a rut again.
Mm. So, sexually or intimacy, maybe connection in general.
Yes, that's what I'm looking for. But I'm actually trying to open it up, and then I find that the woman I have here M
locks and locks and locks every time.
Mm.
And gets so upset or angry and for no reason, which is really just that it's not something she has done or I have done. So the width I've got on here hits something in the back.
Mm.
So even though there's actually an open heart and love, we hit somewhere else.
Mm. Where it's not enough that there is a desire to allow the dreams of love, but there must be, there must be a desire to go into what hurts together.
To open up in vents together.
And that's where I start to realise, okay. And that's when I begin to understand, okay, if that's going to be possible, then I also have to be able to open up. It's not just, it's not enough that I make myself available to her pain. It must also be able to go the other way.
Mm. M
So she has to be able to stand in my pain and not withdraw and still feel a sense of love and want to meet me even if it's a difficult place. So there we shift into a different way of dealing with each other. At that point I've studied polarity and realised and integrated that into my understanding of how I can play my pole.
Mm.
But I also understand that the part of the Pole that is the quote unquote feminine, but the being-based, the one that has no initiative, that just is or
Mm.
also needs to be met. And if she also just wants to meet
Mm.
and meet a man who has all the facets, who can also be emotional and can enter into an emotional conversation, can touch her in different ways, can take her hard, but can also nudge her, but can also look after her own life, but can also be interested in her, have a mission in life and all that. Then I suddenly realise, okay, it requires her, it also requires something of her. I suddenly realise that the woman may have her own lack of desire to explore her own depths here or her own pain or
own horniness, science.
Yes. Where it goes from being about being touched in different ways, where I can see that it's a kind of symbol of many ways to being touched
Mm.
inside the soul, inside the body, inside all the things that are there. And it's not because I seek darkness or not darkness as such, but I just realise that it's in the darkness that there are some locks
Mm.
in her. And it's slowly, step by step, finding out how if I lock myself down, if I then come out of it and just be and feel my love, but also my ignition. But it can also just be that the ignition is not there. Being able to reach out into her darkness and be with her gives her the opportunity, but not to be in a demanding situation, not a desire to push it through, because then we have to have sex. That's when I realise that this is where we meet each other, where it's hardest and most horrible. In other words, where life is most awful.
Mm. And there I realised that a woman's sexuality can change if she is met there. So some new power comes up, which then awakens a fascination with the power that comes up, and she actually transforms and takes more of herself home or becomes less inhibited in some sense.
M.
And I've experienced that as she does this, she can initiate me into places where I'm locked, and then I become less and less goal-orientated. In other words, I can go into a state of being just floating, where it's completely unimportant whether there's an orgasm at the other end. That doesn't mean there's no interest in it from time to time. Um, it doesn't mean that the gaze can't drift once in a while either, but it's the choice to bring the focus back out of love for her.
Mm.
And what I then run into are some pitfalls with my reading, which is such that I think just to make such development. base, where you have to develop. And that, if I have to talk about it, is not a way to meet a woman, to use her as a development platform. That's what it is, because then it's a project for me.
Mm.
So it's something about reaching beyond yourself in your interest and wanting to reach all the way into what the other person is going through, which is deeply, deeply difficult, or just hurts, or awakens something that is difficult to be in and stand there without a plan to fuck her or fuck on. And that's what it has nothing to do with it. So I find that sexuality merges with the opening, which in turn opens up for more, that she can be more love. And when she gets there, she can actually illuminate me in a way that touches something in me. That sets off an edge that I then lock onto or that hits a limitation. And then it's crucial that she can stay standing and not run for cover.
Mm.
Because then it's a bit, it's not because it's turn-based in that way, but there's a bit of back and forth in who dares to risk the relationship by being present in what comes up. And one of the things that comes up is the differences between the poles, between the genders.
So as you asked me if I felt understood in the other thing you said, it doesn't matter if I feel understood,
because you're not supposed to. It's more that the curiosity is there,
because the mystery unfolds.
Mm.
And then it blends together so that it slowly comes to be about the whole way we are together. And then there's not really any scolding in between. That and the sexual aspect is not an insignificant part. It's actually a very central part. Because when she unfolds and there's power and she opens her heart and that and the heart comes along, you're illuminated in a way that transforming power transforms energy up in frequency. And what does that mean? There are some words. But I experience it as if the characters, the darkness that is there, it becomes It changes character to include something something something deeper a deeper unconditional love or that kind of unconditional love as understood as if it transcends dualism. That there is something I don't want to be bst something wants to be bst about but that at the same time it is possible to be and let her sexuality her femininity be what it is without me having to be the same. We don't have to we don't have to be in the same book. This then raises the possibility that I can go in and if a man listens to this and feels a longing or a desire to go deeper into his own sexuality and his sexuality with a woman, what should he be aware of in relation to choosing a woman. Let's try to zoom in on that. I would say the first step he needs to take is to actually be interested in the woman.
Yeah, yeah.
To be curious at all. He thinks she's one of the most exciting things in the world.
Mm.
Then he has to go through and understand how she works and try to learn the basics, how does your body work? What are the signs of orgasm? He has to somehow be able to dance around how to read her and how to talk to her about what works m
without her shutting down.
But she also has to be able to contribute here, because if, for example, she fakes and says she has an orgasm, then she has cheated both parties here, if he is basically interested in her getting pleasure and enjoyment from this.
Mm.
So he has to be able to see through that. He has to be able to see, he has to recognise the seven signs of this.
Mm.
Erm. And you have to look it up in Masters and Johnsons. They've done a study where they've sat like that, and I mentioned some of them before.
And I mentioned some of them before.
Um. So if he's watching a porn film and he can't, he thinks it's a woman, but he can't tell the difference, then he already has that piece of work there.
He's already there.
And then he has to get really really good with his hands. I know I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here. He needs to learn how to touch, both by being able to grasp, but also to be sensitive and be able to switch.
Mm.
And he needs to find out if I squeeze her breasts, how much, when is it hard, but not too hard. At that point he has to learn that he has to be able to stand in and take a chance and dare to go to the edge and risk this.
Mm.
He must dare, he must be able to risk going beyond her limit, but he must also be ready to withdraw.
Yes, he has to be.
So he's kind of been through this, and he has both his bad boy and his desire to strangle her and pinch her at the same time.
Mm.
And he has his tender tenderness, which means he's like phew, I don't want to hurt her too much. Both parts must be able to be coloured in it. He has to be able to move between these states, these states of mindlessly f***ing her from the bottom to the s*** it hurt, it went too deep. I have to, I pull back and then I go into my sensitive mode and feel and really ready to take the learning on me and maybe even say I take note. So he has to be very much able to learn while he's turned on and his orgasm doesn't overwhelm him. Mm.
So you have to be able to learn while you're the little head, it's in full swing and be able to pull out and take all that stuff. If you put that in place and you start to master these things and you realise women have different ways that they like to be taken, and all women are actually different in that way to begin with. Eugenic Toner is the same, but the way you touch it.
M
So that's what it's so subtle variations. So many ways that women like to be touched. Starting to say, okay here's a span. You see her here. She can only play the usual strings. And the more time together, the narrower it gets. And then it actually has to be almost scripted. And he has to catch himself that he's too preoccupied with the fact that she has to fit into a way that he finds attractive. If he has something to do, if it becomes too square here, if he's not interested in her breadth, her variation in that it opens up something he doesn't know, if he's not curious about this, then that's not it, then that's not what you should do. But if you're there and you get into a relationship with a woman, and when you can feel the range of colours, including emotionally feeling your feelings. You can also go in and feel where she is. You can talk about deep needs and what she feels, what you feel, where you stand. If she shuts down and has a hard time with it and keeps not wanting and exploring it, then it's probably not going to happen.
Mm.
Well, because in the next phase, you get beyond asking how she feels, it's in a phase or it's in a phase
where you might also have studied - yes, so in addition to her body, you've also studied, you could say, her orgasm cycle and how her body works. If you've also had practical studies, okay, now you want to go deep. Now you want to open up her heart. Now you want her to want you deeper and deeper. And you But it actually requires that you want to put yourself here with her. And you want to get to know her deeper, and you want to go all the way, so you keep having this curiosity about her. If she rejects that curiosity and doesn't show it, then maybe she's not where she's ready.
Mm.
But it's okay, she closes and doesn't want to, but if she continuously doesn't seek out any kind of way to open herself up, by any means, then it will narrow in,
and then she's not there.
So if you've done everything right, so to speak, or you can't say that, but let's say you've stood your ground, you've taken responsibility, she hasn't lost trust in you. All the things we've talked about before that can go completely fish that podcast talks about the man's unrealised potential there all the pitfalls too for being m
that her lack of trust can cause her to shut down and all that there are many things. But if you're as pure as you can be if you're as pure in intention and you're deep in a deep relationship and she wants that too she says what she says she loves you she wants closeness and all that and the sex is intense but she's getting more and more narrow minded and she withdraws from time to time or she gets frustrated or annoyed or upset and you she won't let you in, then you have to respect that she won't. She's not interested in that. And it could be because you're not the right person.
But it could also be, it could also be
that she's not, that she's too scared to go down that road.
Mm.
It could also be that you haven't opened up your heart enough and are ready to see her. But either way, there has to be this dance where she wants to be seen. And you see her, you go look, so at some point you can almost start to see someone in her and feel what's happening. It takes time, but I think maybe other men get to that point too.
Mm.
And realise that she has emotional states that you had no idea existed, for example in the womb. But if you have to if you have to if you have to go through that and open up, and there's light, there's awareness, love reaches deeper and deeper. Not as an end in itself, but as a consequence of you meeting. And it becomes more intense. She opens up. Your heart opens up. She goes a little ahead, helps you, or you allow yourself to open up through your pain. So don't expect the woman to, because if she opens up too early and opens up too much and you're not ready, you're going to put her to sleep, you're going to hit her, because we men, our starting point is very closed. and square and stuffed with everything through generations. So that's where her sexuality is so suddenly one where she can be an oracle and she can scorch you and you have to be able to stand there where you dare to expose yourself, that is, you dare to face the Tagarian dog fox and that's where your courage comes in, where the courage you might be used to climb mountains or take a chance at work or drive fast in my car, it must be used there.
Mm.
Your willingness to push through. It's basically about being able to say, this is more important. It's that I see her. That I meet her, that I'm able to meet her, that I'm able to open up enough to see her without her being able to without me realising how square I see her, how much I pigeonhole her. But I allow it to come up, and then it has to break or bear. That's where it stands.
And in it there is such an intense pain of all sorts of exciting flavours. And the fact that we men can ignore pain is smart here, because you can say that you shouldn't ignore it, you should allow it to be there.
Mm.
And allow to go through it. But that's something the feminine can do. It's actually going into pain, being with it, breathing through it, breathing like a wall or whatever you're talking about. But this uh and then let it transform.
And there she has magical power, which is her attention, which is not discernment in the first place, but which just is and flows with what is. So if she pulls away when you hit yours again and again, or she pulls away when you get too close to her, then you're not there.
Mm.
And unfortunately, my experience is that it's I don't have, I don't have a broad experience with, but I've tried standing in the centre field with someone who said she wanted to do it, but she did it, so she didn't want to work on what came up herself, but I did intense work to take hold of everything that came up in me.
Mm.
And my longing to go deeper, um, made me hold on longer than maybe I should have, because I didn't have the experience to see that there wasn't a common interest in this. So what you're really saying is that the man has to actually watch the woman's courage to explore. It's one thing for her to monitor his darkness and speak up and stuff like that, but she also needs to have the courage to let herself fall into her own darkness and see it, discern it and take it home.
That's the connection with trust. And there's the connection with trust, that's where it's deep, deep, deep down.
Mm.
Because the trust that you don't trust that she can surrender to falling deep, deep, deep into what is the worst in her.
Mm. While you witness her, while you care for her and hold her deeply. Often it will be you holding her
Mm.
Holding her. Where I think a lot of men pull away. Phew. Well, they do that in marriage in general. Phew. Now she's difficult and has some feelings. I don't understand anything. That's exactly where the difference is in you. Whether you can do that, it's actually whether do you stay with her? Do you feel, do you open your heart to her when she's there? Do you reach out? if you start to judge her here or think she's annoying or shut up woman like that too, so if you have all that then you have to get hold of it you have to start working with everything that comes up when she's angry or when she gets angry or when she gets whatever it is but I've also learnt that her journey is also that even if she oversteps and she gets angry or she goes somewhere, over time she has to come back and kind of pop up like a meditation where you come back to the breathing there, she has to be somewhere, where she returns to, okay, I just need to find out if it's that guy who's unclean or a fool, if I should leave him, or if there's something inside me that keeps popping up that makes me shut down.
Mm.
Which I try to avoid. And that's what it requires of her. It requires her to practice that.
It actually requires her to learn to laugh, right?
Yes, it does. Then it also requires her to do that, doesn't it? Um, it can be really nice for a woman who doesn't have a sense of polarity when you are a man and play the male role while being able to switch poles. Because if she's not conscious, it doesn't require anything of her, so you can go in and do crafts for her and start doing all her projects and all that. She'll be like: ‘No, it's so nice every time he comes and stuff like that, and you know, and then I get my feet bathed and massaged and taken and it's pure luxury.’ Plus, if you are able to know the woman's sexuality and can relatively quickly recognise where she gets pleasure from it, then you can get it, then you can have a great relationship in the short term. But if she's not in control of her structure, of her momentum, of all the leaks she has, all the like bathtubs and holes, we've talked about it before, where the energy runs out because there are a lot of things she hasn't taken care of, or she hasn't taken care of servicing her girlfriends, because she doesn't dare stand up for herself. She turns up for everything because she should and stuff like that. So she hasn't really got to grips with what society demands. She has probably taken her power home and is constantly rushing around and in that way chatting up her social energy and basically not prioritising you or you guys.
Mm.
But it all becomes such a chattering diligence and faffing about, where it's where it sails. What's difficult in a woman is actually because she's the stronghold of both relationships, so it's extremely uncomfortable when there's conflict and discord. So she will seek, and I'm just talking about what I've learnt, so if it's really wrong, but that's how I perceive, she will seek harmony even if a friend is actually unreasonable.
Mm.
And then she will constantly navigate in pleasing that friend and making sure that friend also feels good. And I haven't seen her that often, and then I can't be with you. And you know, she'll get annoyed when you challenge her and say, well, maybe we should be together. Isn't that more important? Ah, but you're needy too. Well, you've also got But you may well be. But it could also be because she doesn't know how to look at her relational network and see, what is the actual quality for me here? Or is it because I only feel valuable if I play a role in my network of friends or towards my mum, who I have to call in a certain way or visit or make a cake for so-and-so on a Sunday and cook dinner or something. So that's when I learnt that women are all over the place in trying to please and basically be a nice girl. So you could roughly say that the man's risk can be shat piss his sexual energy in relation to other women. And not that it can affect polarity and the relationship where the woman can run around like a chicken in a cage and shat piss her social energy because she can't actually define herself and then there's not much energy left for him. So what should you look out for? Actually, it's not, because you've actually described it very well, that the woman can chat piss her social energy. I mean, the whole drum I have to have all sorts of social requirements that some are valid and some are not.
But she can also have another thing, and that is to have many practical things that are not being solved.
Yes, she does.
Where she's constantly looking for where it's nice. But it clutters around everywhere else.
Yes, she does.
And it requires
Does she expect him to take care of it?
Well, you can get to that. If you go in and polarise a relationship like that, she'll think it's a leak. And you say, shouldn't I deal with the builders and solve that problem?
Mm.
Um. Also because you think, well, instead of her spending so much energy on it, you could be together.
Yes, you could.
So you can be nurturing as a man or try to meet her to solve her problems. But that's a risk signal, because it could indicate that there are a lot of things going wrong
Yes, there are.
in her life that she hasn't dealt with. Erm, because she's looking for harmony, the oxymoronic, the relational, where it's nice. So instead of painting half a wall and then suddenly a friend calls and it's actually nicer or
Mm.
Erm, so things can sail.
Mm.
She can also be in the opposite ditch where she's too masculine, too much structure and too solution-orientated and has too much difficulty letting go.
Mm.
And if she's not aware of it, because she's in a leadership position or she becomes
bffne. Mm. No, but then she became like that in the initial relationship, we also, just so you know, I also want to have a child, and I'm building a house in Frederiksberg, and I'm the director of that company, and then the first date and so on, where she or another example is that she simply can't even let go of a drive with someone, because it's so powerful to maintain control.
Mm.
And there and such a woman typically has to be taken very hard or almost tied up or in other ways like in such a BDSM-like context.
er, for her to let go
and you have to work very hard and then you have to over-masculinise her. You have to really go to her and then she gives in, but because she's not aware that she has that defence, it will always be a problem because she doesn't work with it, but she's good at her job and she wears those high heels that ruin his feet and it's all just like that
mm is really fr, she has completely forgotten in her gender equality, where she tries to compete with the traditional masculine way of being and enjoying being her body.
So she's also a trap or a
So she must at least be aware of polarity. She has to be aware of something here. So if a woman really if you bring it up with her and she says she wants to and blah blah blah blah but she doesn't do it. So there's no action or she feels criticised or anything like that. Um, it's extremely difficult to bring it up with another person who hasn't come to any realisations about this themselves.
Mm.
So...
is it possible to walk the path without the other person being inspired and
interested in walking the path?
No, I don't think so.
M
because it's all about consciousness.
Mm.
Um. It's that consciousness comes on. And it's not consciousness starts with awareness, but then it gets included in a world where it's an understanding you have of what's happening without having to analyse it.
Mm.
Or it's very nice like that. I'm just trying it out
m
and make it a bit square.
Mm.
But consciousness is being in you in one form or another. So if there is no desire for increased awareness in relationships, in love or in sexuality or just the way you are together when the children are there, or you just are, if there is a desire for it. Um, the attention is on everything else. Um, then she's probably not there. So he has to be aware of that.
Mm.
He has to be careful not to judge her on how, what effort she makes. Well, because if she's assessed, then it closes her down, and that's actually when you really have to work on yourself.
Mm. It's something about recognising that she has complete freedom from moment to moment in her movement.
M
and the framework you set up, she can choose to melt into and enjoy, or she can reject it, or she can do something else. But if you continue a little bit of what you're setting up and she doesn't accept it, then it may not be a good fit. It may also be that you are not good as in your masculine special frame and holding it.
Mm.
It may be that you're not good at reading that now you should go to her, or now you shouldn't go to her.
Mm. So it sounds like you're describing a paradox, because on the one hand you have to keep an eye on whether you're interested in taking the road, is this partner also interested in taking the road, because the partner can say he, well, she's interested in it and then not do it.
You can believe that she's interested in what you can't actually handle.
Especially if it's someone who is quote spiritually interested, they will know that it's the right thing to say, and they will also believe it.
And they'll believe it. But you can meet people who use meditation and yoga and tarot cards and all sorts of things to cope.
Mm.
Well, I think the meaning of our relationship is like this. Now I've just, I've just drawn cards on it, and what was the meaning of what happened, and it's something completely different from what happened or had anything to do with anything. And then you've been sitting, so they've been sitting with their friend drinking red wine and drawing tarot cards, and then it's kind of resolved. But there's no awareness of it. There isn't, you can see that it's in the same place, or that place is in an inaccessible area, and the frame still locks. So there becomes a kind of superstition or a kind of uh
harmony bypass.
Yes, you could say that. So you move yourself to a place where you feel harmonious inside yourself. And that now it's clear what happened, and now it's resolved. It could also be that she had a previous partner who did some things to her, and she says, well that's it, it's resolved. And you ask, how have you dealt with it? Well, you know, but it's been too long and he's taken a hard one and it's been right on the edge of rape or she hasn't really been into it but she's kind of let herself be taken and then she comes anyway and thinks it's delicious and something weird like that and you think that's it it it's completely wrong and jam but it's no problem I've gotten over it and he was a.... but now I'm now it's past not want to talk about it's not because you have to talk to her about it that's the father signal is she tries to avoid and take a stand and feel
mm on something that you may see that pops up in other situations where there is reminiscence
pop up, yes, and that's typically where it really just pops up. It would be some kind of sexual context where there is something she is avoiding in the way she has sex,
because it reminds her of something, but she's solved that.
Mm.
But her behaviour doesn't reflect that.
It's actually a different kind of turn-off compared to being on a journey with a woman where both parties have chosen it.
Yes, it does.
Because things come up because we wear a lot of darkness, both genders. So what would your best advice be to men when they're in an intimate relationship with a woman and she suddenly gets hit by something. It could be during a sexual act, something comes up. Jam.
So the first thing is to calmly and quietly pull out.
Mm.
Um. There you should also consider a little bit whether you simply b gently take around her now, so that she might hold her. You might also ask if she wants to be held.
Mm.
There's no right answer to how to do this. And as you start to get to know her, you'll know most of the time if she wants to be held or if she wants to be left alone. Mm.
It may well be that she wants to work with what comes up herself.
Mm.
But I would recommend initially stopping the act and then moving on to uh and that's why if if over time you experience that you lose contact with your love for her and it becomes pure horniness, then you won't be able to make that navigation. So it's actually a goal to get to a place where it doesn't take over so much, so that your urge to come and see her from certain sides and so on. Um, that it takes over, if it takes over more, and you don't really, I mean, if you buy her, even though you think she's basically annoying or whiny or something and you drive through, um, then you've lost contact with your heart connection to her, so.
Mm.
But if she if you're still so and it's about getting back and finding out, well, can you feel your love for her? And that's what it's all about can you can you open can you feel can you open up and that over time it becomes more and more present in a way where it doesn't close and then the sexual will be a subset of that
etc.
like where you can hold out more and more intensity the heart is always one step ahead so it holds it like a bubble
mm
but if you choose to switch and let your urge to come and your desire to k***** and your fantasy of her getting pregnant or you want to lock up with her or something.
Mm.
Whatever you think is cool besides his bum or whatever the fuck it is.
Mm.
If it's more important than your love, if you lose touch with the fact that you care about her, then you switch over.
Mm.
And that can happen, but then you have to work with what's closing. Then you have to catch yourself in it.
Mm.
But that's not where you start, of course. So anyway, if you can feel your love for her, it's actually something about being present.
The worst thing you can do in principle is to walk away because you can't contain it.
So if you can't contain it, then you need to work on it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um. But if you can handle it
and don't run away and don't become like oh women and how annoying it is, and is she going to do that abuse again, and are we going to do that now? Wow, if you're there. Then you got work to do. But if it doesn't trigger you, then you can be there and you can actually open up and connect with her. It's not something you can say you're doing because it's not a will, you can ask to allow yourself to feel her and you're not entitled to her, but she lets you in if it is. And then you can actually have a connection where you feel where she is.
Mm.
And then you can start working on allowing, you could say, being allowed to connect and feel what is feeling the pain, and then you can only feel the resonance in your op.
Mm.
And then we're into the second place, then you can start working, then you can start actively, if your abilities start to awaken, then you can start working in her, just like she can do with you.
Mm.
But it requires all this preparatory work, where the sexual reality becomes the place where the transformation hits. It's going to be difficult. It hits every time.
Mm.
Because it's right there, where it doesn't
Yes, it is.
But again, it's not something you, it's not something you do because you want to be healed or you want to be enlightened. Or you want to be something. It's something you do because you want her. It's something you care about her because you want to be close to her. If there's more to it than that,
then it's not, then it's not, so if you see her as an instrument for your own, you know, self-development in one form or another, then she's not, then your love doesn't extend beyond yourself.
Mm.
Well, you also have to remember that you don't have the right to penetrate her with energy, with your attention, but you can reach out in unconditional love, and then she can let you in, and then your attention can bring about a transformation that you can become more and more aware of how you do.
Mm.
So you can contribute to her having her own self-assertive potential that we men can more hit an edge, where she will probably hit more something that's hard to be in, that she's trying to avoid.
Exactly.
And by being there, by being aware that she realises she's not alone in that. Experience that human love is enormously wonderful because then she's not alone in what's difficult. And women have a lot of grief and pain in their bodies. And going in depth in that way has only worked with one, so I guess, but I think it's very, I think it's broad. Yes, it is.
Erm.
I heard a podcast with on to the moon. she has in a sexual tantric female therapist. She said all the women she has, they have, and I could recognise all that and without going into detail.
Mm.
Um. That's how much women bring.
Mm.
Because of, and a lot of it is because of men too, but some of it is also because of what women do to it. But a lot of it is because of men's, um, abuse, um, pressure.
There are all kinds of demands from the outside world, and women have been shut down. So what you really, it's a fixed shell basically has to be on that it's exciting to see a woman become powerful.
Mm.
Are you attracted to her unfolding and becoming more and more powerful? Both in her boundaries, in her ability to be at least strong in her emotions, but also stronger in being able to be in her sleep.
Mm.
From one spectrum to the other. So she has to be able to both blow your brains out with fire and be able to be in a place where she's completely fucked up.
Mm.
And I think you still want to be close to her and feel her without you being all over the place and you want to look inside her because you care about her and there is this learning or this understanding that you can't just use words all the time and ask questions that still applies if she puts it into words, but you should not question her. You have to allow yourself to come up
it's the same when she's hit as when she's close to orgasm
that works as if by we don't have any that we seem as if it happens the same. Yes exactly If she then opens up, and there's like love and light coming in, then she unfolds in new ways. And then these narrow little branches suddenly start to unfold in all sorts of ways. But now your interest in her coming and her choosing you again is gone. All that, it's gone. So now it becomes a dance. Now it becomes a dance that alternates between ecstasy and pain. And you live life more fully.
Mm.
And live the potential that we humans have together. So that, um, we have troughs and strengths, but pain is part of the spectrum.
Mm.
And there would be a longing to live in that ecstasy. But that but but but but but if you try to hold on to that, you're trying to bypass that something painful can come up again inside you or between you. Or is it something painful in her relationships with others or your relationships with others or something that you experience at work that is unpleasant or you want to push something. But all of those things can then suddenly go into that field and become part of who you are together. So there is a place where you are met in deep love or she is met or you both meet each other. Then there is a place, a place in life where you are met in a love for who unfolds in you underneath all your conditioning and your genetic predisposition and your sexual inclination and all that. Shall we end here?
Do you have any final words of advice or wisdom for the dear men
about female sexuality?
Well, if your starting point is to be curious about her body or to conquer her or make her come or that you know something about her or you need her to be something or you need her to be your curiosity, then bring it on. You're interested in her. You are interested in her.
You because you feel a love connection.
Mm.
That's where it all starts.
Mm.
That you want to go.
Mm.
That's what it is and that your own longing to feel more, to allow love to open up in your life is so great that you will do it whether she wants you to or not. In the sense that you might not meet someone else. You might even do it. But if it really is that she doesn't want to open up her heart with you, then it's still what you want, so it doesn't depend on her. If she senses that it depends on her, then you're willing to kind of say, well, I'm going to pull back a little bit and I'll adapt a little bit here, or I'll try to break through the armour by taking her hard, even if she's in some place where she's closed. Well, do you want her here? Is it because you know her, you feel love for her, or because you have some project with it.
Mm. Or just think it's too much of a hassle and have to go out and find someone else.
Mm. And you're worried about whether you can go the distance, right?
Mm. So you could say it's about love.
Yes, you could say that. And in the process, you realise as a man of love, you can accommodate more and more and more and more and more. As it seems as if the woman through her sexuality, but also being in life already has a certain access to
Mm.
that you as a man don't have. And that's a mystery. It's very exciting that she can go into being in it. He has to be like that, so if you see her as a mystery that you want to enjoy, and then it unfolds, and then it's like ah okay. It's not about understanding women, but you understand how she feels.
Mm.
Without figuring it out. Because you can't. So you have to savour the mystery of you being a body that waves up and down in tension. And then there's attraction, and things happen in between. But you have to enjoy what happens there.
Not just attraction. Also everything else
also. Everything that's difficult. You have to you have to really
You have to have a fascination and curiosity to go into the pain and then let it see what happens both in her and your own.
Mm. And this can then spread to you also starting to have the same curiosity about other relationships.
Mm.
Thank you, thank you.
Shall we leave it at that?
Mm.
Let's say thank you for that time.
