Podcast E13: Highly Sensitive or Empath?
Podcast E13, "Highly Sensitive or Empath: Navigating Energetic Exchange," is a conversation between Mette Miriam Sloth and Sune Sloth that explores the complex experience of being sensitive or empathic in a world of constant energetic exchange. They challenge the traditional view of "highly sensitive" as a diagnosis and instead present a perspective where sensitivity is seen as a natural openness to the environment and an ability to sense energies that many people have closed off.
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Energetic Exchange: A Battle for Attention
Mette Miriam Sloth introduces the concept of energetic exchange as a constant process where we share energy with each other. She uses the metaphor of a "battle for energy," which can be compared to a "battle for attention." People who are sick or unwell often expect to receive more energy from others. According to Mette Miriam Sloth, this exchange is often unconscious and based on an outdated mindset where sensitive and empathic people automatically assume the role of energy-giving "support" for others.
James Redfield's Archetypes and Energetic Manipulation
Mette Miriam Sloth draws on James Redfield's book The Celestine Prophecy and presents his description of different archetypes that illustrate how people can manipulate the energy of others to meet their own needs. Although she does not explicitly mention the book's title, she describes several of Redfield's archetypes:
The Intimidator: Creates fear of consequences if one does not listen.
The Interrogator: Questions and demands attention.
The Victim: Plays the victim to gain sympathy and energy.
The Withdrawn: Requires extra effort to make contact.
These archetypes are examples of how people can use different strategies to draw energy from others, often without being aware of it.
Taking Responsibility for Your Own Energy and Setting Boundaries
Mette Miriam Sloth emphasizes the importance of differentiating between one's own feelings and feelings that are taken in from others. She tells about her own experience with physical pain that turned out to originate from "depositing" other people's negative energies in the body.
Both Mette Miriam and Sune Sloth argue that sensitive people have a responsibility to protect their energy and set clear boundaries. They suggest a number of strategies to achieve this:
Become aware of your radiation: Your radiation of energy attracts certain types of people.
Learn to distinguish between your own feelings and those of others: Be aware of when you are taking in the feelings of others.
Cleanse your energy system: Use energy work to remove negative energies and blockages.
Say no: Learn to say no to unwanted energetic exchange.
Keep distance: Keep physical distance from people who drain you.
Be grateful for what is given freely: Gratitude indicates a healthy exchange of energy.
Group Consciousness and Navigating Social Contexts
Sune Sloth brings up an important point about the dynamics in groups and the challenges of navigating social contexts. He warns against using "roles and predicates" as excuses to avoid social situations and instead encourages developing an "elegant" way of setting boundaries.
Embracing the Darkness and the Power
Both Mette Miriam and Sune Sloth reject the "rosy" understanding of love that characterizes certain spiritual environments. They argue that true love embraces both light and shadow, and that it is important to integrate both one's own power and one's own darkness to navigate the energetic exchange. Setting boundaries and saying no is seen as an expression of love because it allows the other person to take responsibility for their own energy and development.
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Translated transcript of the original Danish podcast
Hosts: Mette Miriam Sloth & Sune Sloth
Welcome to the Magdalene Effect podcast. And today we're going to talk about being particularly sensitive.
Mm. Sensitive. The sensitivity spectrum. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mm, yes. And whether that term even makes sense at all.
It doesn't really make sense to us, does it?
Or it makes sense. But we'll get into why we want to talk about that.
Exactly. Exactly, exactly.
Yes, that's right.
And as usual, it's Mette
Grandy Slot and Su Slot sitting here.
Behind the microphone and screen.
So the concept of sensitive, particularly sensitive, what can it do and what can't it do
according to you?
Well, we can define the term, but you can also go out and read up on it.
Mm.
Erm. So I think we need to leave that to others, don't we?
Yes, we do.
Well, I want to approach it from a completely different angle than talking about special sensitivity. And I will do that from the angle that I have, and that we have worked our way to.
Mm.
And that is that it's about radiance, it's about energy, and it's about the exchange of these things.
Mm.
And when we enter a field where there are other people, there is an exchange of these things, and there will be an expectation in what we call old world or earthy people, who are used to acting in such a way that you share your plasma, your energy with others. There is an expectation that you have to sit and listen to someone who is having a hard time, and that you have to take it in, and then you can exchange in that way. For example, if you're an empath or very much a living person or have a good heart, you'll often find yourself in situations where you've befriended people or friends or family to listen to their problems.
Mm.
So that's one of the things in it. And when we talk about this exchange of energy, it's based on the premise that there's a finite amount. And I'm a bit inspired by James Redfield and his nine insights, which is not a scientific book in any way, but I still think he's on to something that we have observed through our energy sensing is correct.
Mm.
And that is that there is a battle for energy. And if you were to put it in everyday terms, there's a battle for attention.
Mm. Exactly.
Um. That attention is a currency that runs in the field. And if someone is sick or unwell, you expect them to give more.
Mm.
Conversely, there is also no call to responsibility. In other words, you actually expect that you may well find yourself in the situation of what we call trauma dumping. In other words, you have to listen to people's problems. But you wouldn't actually expect us to ask questions and say have you taken responsibility for what's happening? So how much should I take in that you're telling me that you've made the same mistake again, or you've experienced being in a relationship with someone who is difficult to be in. And you haven't really done anything about it. We don't say that to each other.
M
umm, so there's a call to responsibility that you don't do that.
You listen to other people's problems
and then you're compassionate and say well that's incredibly good and you've done the best and I can understand it's difficult.
Mm.
So in the old way of thinking, it's an expectation when you enter a social context. And especially if you're empathetic or you're sensitive, I think you'll find that there are many people who over time have expected you to have that role.
Mm.
And it's extremely difficult to get out of that role.
Requires an enormous amount of work.
Mm.
Because not everyone is like that.
No, they're not.
Um. And it comes out of, what can you say, James Redfield, he comes up with some types, and I think they're actually very good at getting an understanding of what it gave me way behind a very good understanding of some rough archetypes.
Mm. One called intimidator. So you're actually intimidated because you know there's some consequence if you don't listen.
Mm.
It can have a consequence in the group or it can be worse. But it's typically implied. So if you don't listen to me then there's something happening that's
it gives you a bit of an unpleasant feeling.
You know you have to pay attention to that person.
Mm.
Then it's what we call an interrogator or an interrogation. It's someone you don't want to pay attention to, but they question you. They keep asking questions.
Mm. And it can be both psychological, but it can also be someone who constantly asks questions, or not questions, but questions about what some kind of technology or how do you build a terrace or how is it going with this and that? And you can have this feeling that you have to answer, you can say, I don't want to talk about that. You can't say that.
Mm.
So there's a lot about what you can't do here. So the social norms tell you, if you follow them, not to be rude and actually say, well, I don't really want to talk to you, or I don't want to answer your questions anymore about something. But it can also be someone who questions the way you live your life, whether you've done it well enough, and who uses it in a more abusive way.
m
as a way of tapping into that power.
Mm.
So if we get into these slightly more abusive forms of interaction, it may be that being a believer and having an implicit understanding that there will be trouble in some form in the relationship if nothing happens, or you have to answer some questions, because otherwise you know that at some point the person will get weird or freak out or distance themselves or slander or something.
Yes, that's right.
So there are some compulsive patterns. And then there's someone called Pur Me Stakles My, who actually gets his plasma, his energy from you by playing the role of a poor soul who can't do anything about his situation. And I'm not saying that the world is set up so that everyone can do something about every situation. There are people who are trapped in situations they can't do anything about. But there is a role where you cultivate it, where others give you attention on that account.
Yes, that's right. Utilising it.
Yes, that's it. And then the last one, that's what he calls loof. That's the withdrawn one, where you become like you're trying to work overtime to get their attention. You feel like they're kind of hard to get in touch with.
Mm.
Erm, and withdraws. And then you get this feeling that you have to stretch yourself to meet them. And then you start working in that process of working to get their attention. Then again, there's this currency of plasma that slides back and forth, where they kind of bravely get something brave from you.
Mm.
What we've realised by working with these things is that it's much more complex than that. It's not just plasma. There's also plasma that can take different forms. For example, anger. It can be jagged. There can almost be, you could say, we've had green plasma, like envy. We have dealt with many forms.
Mm.
Fear also of a standard form.
Yeah, yeah.
Um. And they can be exchanged as the plasma of the energies that are sent between us. Uh, and they can also be exchanged via these shortcuts, which are well described by Bible Brenin, which are actually in the chakra, and which we connect to each other via. And when we make these connections, we make connections that actually hook us up to others, which makes us think we feel some things ourselves sometimes, which actually come from someone else.
Yes, that's right.
So sometimes when we feel that something is happening and it's difficult to escape when we've had contact with someone who has some of these patterns that most people have, there will be things running in the system that we've realised we can work with. You can actually decouple these discounts. You can also clean them. Um, but the background to this is that there is actually a lack of energy. You could say it's a lack of attention. So a person on the internet who needs a lot to attract attention as a currency in itself.
It's a person who gets, when we talk about narcissistic supply, we talk, I actually see it as a concrete thing.
I don't just see it as
you can also be a supply in relation to something materialistic and things like that.
Mm.
But a supply is actually that a person, and you can also get into that when it's you, and elaborate, because I think it's really exciting what you think about it.
Mm.
Erm. And when we see these dark tries, we actually see that not only do they take it in, but if you have a higher vibration, if you have a lot of heart energy, they actually take it down in frequency in a way that makes what comes back,
it's heavier.
Mm.
So there can be a mixture of a little bit of criticism, and at the same time a little bit of lifting, and then you come in with something or questioning, or if I know that if I go this way, there will be trouble if I don't follow here. So it can be that if it's a really good one, they change roles here.
Depending on how they've learnt to get energy out of you.
Mm.
This thing about driving it down in frequency, I would say that we only have it up, or I've only seen it in these special cases, but there is a social code that we should listen to each other, we should receive and share and um
and for women especially.
Yes, and for women in particular. And I find that men have that too,
but it's true. And we can go deeper into it, because you have that perspective.
Mm. But I've also experienced a lot as a man that it's expected. Mm.
And when we see when I see a posting for special sensitivity that talks about being particularly sensitive, we recharge by being in our own company and when we come out like that, we lose some of our power and get filled.
We regulate for others, right?
Yes, we do. That we regulate our emotions for others. Erm. That's when I think, okay, we need to have a talk about that, because
m
it's not just regulation. You're also going to take in their, uh, frequencies. So then some of their anxiety,
if you open yourself up to this
and say, well, I'm taking it in, I'm allowing it to circulate.
then it's going to sit in your own system, and you're going to realise, after we've cleaned out and cleaned out and cleaned out and cleaned out, that some of it was actually sitting there for others.
Yeah.
And there's no judgement in that. That's okay.
Mm.
You can do that.
Mm.
So, uh, this exchange that's in there. It means that we get to dump emotions into each other and use each other as survivors to share sleeps and joys. And there's nothing wrong with that.
The crux of the matter is whether you want to be part of that cycle.
Mm.
And there's nothing worse or better, but there's something about finding out if you're interested in exchanging in this way.
Mm.
And is it possible to show care without taking things in? And that's one of the things we've been working a lot on trying to figure out. And for some people it's not, because if there's a uh if there's a mindset behind it, that it's required, if there's not a gratitude behind it, I'm glad you give.
Mm.
And in that gratitude there can also be, I examine myself how I can take responsibility for dealing with what I'm facing.
Mm.
You can't do that if you've been run over by a motorbike and are in hospital, then it would be quite natural to give each other plasma.
Exactly.
But there's this underlying requirement. So what is it fornels? Where along it is there? Does it have consequences? Are you suddenly being questioned? Do you get into these roles? You know, do you feel it? Does it have consequences? Are you being slandered? Are there different things?
Are you being blamed and shamed for not standing up and listening, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Mm.
So then there are some things here
Mm.
Erm. Which we've realised are absolutely crucial to thriving.
Mm. Yes.
So there's something about frequencies. And we never talk about bad and good energies, because energy is just there is no good or bad. A
But there are energies that are spelled out. And fear is one of them. It's this prickly white energy. It can have different forms.
M m
um there are different energies. For example, anger is not necessarily a problem. It can also be power, so not
Yes, exactly.
And fear can be warranted if because it stops the system and makes you aware that something is happening.
Exactly.
Fear is only a problem if it sticks around.
Yes.
And stuck in the body,
and then you have a trauma. M
But if you can shake it off, then that's fine too, right? But if the rod station closes,
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you then circulate that fear and the whole group circles around the fear of something that they share, then you participate in that fear. And when you get home, you've actually taken in both the fear and you've taken in the perspectives, which is the mental exchange.
M. Mm.
And all that is part of a social system that you have chosen to be a part of or have found yourself a part of through who you gave birth to and so on. Um, and I've spent many years trying to figure out how to deal with that without being drained.
Mm.
And uh, and that's the thing we're talking about now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the work consists of going in and working with everything that resonates in my system with what's in others.
Mm.
And working with it so that there is flow, raising the frequency. And when there is no flow, I need to go into an exchange. So, if we have the same anger that's unresolved about something and we get into what we are some group or some person who has done something. If I go in and feel that anger and I haven't taken responsibility for what to do with it,
we're actually using the relationship to exchange anger and build up a distance to some person or group. Um, then I have to, I have to go in, so what I do is work on where is my own position in that?
Do I want to participate in that group split?
Have I dealt with my anger? Have I figured out if that anger is warranted? Is it an old anger trigger? Because it reminds me of something else.
Mhm. And survivor.
Mm. But can you put a little more words on how the process of it? Because...
you've come quite far in terms of this uncovering and you know the big breathing game.
But where you started was kind of identifying physical pain, right?
Yeah, yeah. That I started by identifying an awful lot of pain in my stomach.
Mm.
Um. But also in the shoulders and in the head.
And arms.
I've also had arms. Erm.
And there's the persecuted Is it as such a, you could say, a therapeutic one, but also in relation to, you know, diet and is there anything that triggers and all that sort of thing.
M. Mm.
So, and there you could also dampen some of it. Um, but I realised that it was largely deposition,
wasn't it? It's not someone else's fault. I myself entered into exchanges here, but I had been used to
exchanging uh various anger, frustration, hatred, aggression, island, shame and things like that. Mm.
with others. And it would also be good to say that if you have someone with narcissistic defences and is empathic or sensitive, then it can be a standard exchange that they dump their feelings into you.
Exactly.
And you can have this perception that the other person is a world where the world is against them and you're protecting them and you feel sorry for them and you can't see any other perspective because that's actually where they come from.
So they're kind of victims.
Mm.
And if you do that bonding, then you'll also take their fear of what's around. And that and what's kind of the itch here, is that you'll get an independent reality being built up.
Mm.
Like if you go out and look, it will be funny that that person typically has a lot of problems with others. And if you then look down later into how it was, how the people around them felt, then it turns out that it's an independent reality they've built up that you become a part of.
Mm.
And it will typically be such an empathic, narcissistic, maybe even psychopathic background.
M Exactly.
Um, because what they do is, if you're more frequent and have a more open heart for empathy, then you'll be a good one.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, so there's a special a special category here. So if we talk, it's like the extra difficult level. It's actually getting
through it. And I would say if you can get to the point where you can deal with them, keep your energy, your attention in your own field. Without getting into them at all, without having any emotion on them as a trigger.
Mm.
And it's not just forgiving, it's not just saying, jam, but it's okay what they're doing, and then still being boundary setting and standing up for yourself and in no way feeling the urge to push into them or
take care of them. Mm.
With neither moralising or you're better or worse in and saying, well, but they're somewhere else. You can see their you can see their energy field. You can feel where they are. You don't go in and exchange.
Then you can get to a point where you can be able to stand very clearly. Clear also when others are present. So it's clear for them to feel that there's a difference between one trigger, the other doesn't trigger.
Mm.
One can be in themselves and the other can't. Erm. And that can be relevant if you're in some kind of, I don't know, municipal case, and someone has to look at you. Because when you have an exchange with someone like that, it goes downhill.
Yes, it goes downhill.
And then you get so traumatised that they actually see two parties. They see two parties that have a conflict. And what about the children? And you can't co-operate.
Mm.
But that's because you're in this, but you'll never be able to explain to them what's going on. M.
Well, they won't understand.
They won't be able to work it out. They won't be able to spot it.
They won't be able to spot it.
So the way is actually But I would think it's advanced level to stand with someone who has these resolutions.
It's advanced. It's possible, but it's advanced.
It's definitely something that's a difficult level.
Yes, it's a difficult level.
But back to friends, work, that kind of thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Family especially.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, there I've had to work on finding ways to uh accept that people are offended and in the mildest way uh be honest anyway.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I don't directly say, well I don't want to talk to you, but I don't go into an exchange energetically, and then it says I have to move on a bit too.
Mm.
Oh. Well, that was fine. And then actually sit and look after myself, but not demand anything from them. Not demand their attention. Um... If I sense that there's something a bit threatening underneath, it's also something about being good at setting boundaries here. And that and that is all happening on an energetic exchange level.
At the same time, the only thing they see and feel is their own frustration that you should and why don't you talk and you are different. And then you'll probably - I haven't really had anyone come up to me and say there's something wrong with me, but I think you'll experience it as, well, you're a bit sensitive and she's also a bit withdrawn and she's like that. So there's something wrong with you when you don't want this.
Yes, there is.
You kind of set yourself up for this way of exchanging.
Mm.
And that, uh, well, that was really how I started,
I think, what I wanted to say about it.
Mm.
Erm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mm.
And I'd like to pass it on to you.
Mm-hm.
And then I'd like to ask you to say something about what you think about these things. And
Yes, because I have and I often get questions in relation to, for example, parents or others, both in relation to themselves or to their children as particularly sensitive and it makes sense and you know, should you have an assessment and what can it be autism, you know, people are very confused about this and what does it really mean, aren't we all sensitive and all this not umm and my own understanding of it is well we have degrees so that we actually have a huge potential in the human body to be open. And for me, sensitivity is really just the degree to which we are in exchange with our environment. We feel our environment.
Mm.
And over time you could say that the human illusion has been so dependent on survival and so emphasised that we have lived a lot in constantly having to knot ourselves together. We have actually closed closed closed closed closed closed closed closed.
So as far as I'm concerned, sensitivity is all about sensitivity. Of course, you can also be sensitive to certain foods and things like that. But the thing about being sensitive to the environment and feeling like you're taking things in. It's not a disease. It's not a diagnosis as I see it. It's actually about the fact that it's possible to open up. But we haven't learnt that. So right now we're a very young species. So now we're in a place where there have always been some who have been more open than others. Typically, they've also been bombarded because they actually eat so much. Because it seems to be a universal law that whoever is more open also has the higher frequency, their energy body if you like. It's not something about something better. It's just the way it is. And the higher frequency will suck the lower frequency will suck the higher frequency. That's simply how it goes and will hook up.
And in most cases, it happens unconsciously until you start to become aware of it as a person. And that's why you could say that all people experience it, some are born very sensitive. Some people open up in a crisis. In other words, they simply have to take a blow to their lives that shakes them to their core. And so they suddenly start to change their behaviour, which makes them open up more to life. And you could say that when that happens, there's an openness and you start to feel more, you also start to realise that you've actually ended up doing exactly what you describe, that you've ended up using others to dump your s***.
Yes, that's right.
Because it's not and you're kind of horrified. I mean, you're really horrified at yourself and rightly so, but that and that's not to say it's wrong. It's more to say that it's a
it's right it's kind of a primitive way of trying to regulate if to say we have so much suffering that hurts so much and I can't deal with it so we take this dog shit and smear it on as many people as possible so it's the way we as a species have tried to alleviate suffering in the field by sharing our pain and that's basically what we do to a large extent in therapy and that's It can be enormously healing to share something with another person that you've never told before that is filled with guilt and shame, it can also be enormously healing to have experienced something that is traumatic and that sits like a shock in your system and to share it with someone who listens and soothes, for example someone who is in hospital and has an accident. It's so nice that we help with plasma for someone who is in immediate crisis. Where it becomes a problem is when it becomes a habit. That is, you have a person who shirks responsibility for their own life, keeps coming to you all the time and wants to talk about, well, I feel bad too, and I can't lose weight. I'm always in pain too. And you can just see that the person doesn't do anything about it. And you can see the pattern over many years. The person does nothing. You know, it's a disclaimer. The person keeps getting into a lot of problems where you're like, well, you keep making bad decisions. M
really. And it's sad of course, but every time I'm with you, I get bum warned with crap.
Yeah.
Like so you you think how nice it is to be able to lighten my heart, and you're just like this yourself when you go home just like I don't know how to deal with it. And you have to take that very literally. Take very literally that your field is dirty. You have because we're actually going to fart l*** into each other. Sitting and sharing something that you're not going to do anything about. You're just going to soothe your own system a tiny little bit. So now I'm giving it to you, and you can sit there and give it to me with passion. That's actually giving her a l***.
Mm.
Um. And that's what we have. We're a young species, so we're not like before you just didn't feel anything. So it's the next step in human evolution to try to deal with suffering in that way. But the fact is that we have actually reached a new area of responsibility in our human journey, where we become a call to action to say this is not working. So we can't just keep sitting and handing out all our crap. And at some point, fortunately, you would also experience at some point you yourself get tired of it if you stagnated something. I remember at one point seeing my first such true love, there it was so not at all, but that was it at the time it feels. I was devastated. Over the fact that it went into shot mother not. And me and my poor girlfriends, my poor friends, I talked and argued about it all the time, because I couldn't, I couldn't have it. I simply couldn't handle it. It was so painful, so I had to constantly turn the situation round and round. And now he's written it, I think he wants to and stuff like that. Man, they were sick of me. You know, at some point it's really healthy that you start to get so tired of your own story about yourself that you almost simply have to do something now. And that's why you can also have some truth saying in your friendship. And it's like, okay, why don't we agree that I get to hang out for an hour and then when you don't want to listen to me anymore, you can give me a break. So isn't it, you know, you can just say s*** or we can joke around a bit. We have to try to talk about this, because we can find ourselves in something that's so difficult, that takes up so much space that, like children, when they have a temperamental tooth, we break it open, right?
But it's a, it's something kids are okay with. Kids have to do it. We have to learn to take responsibility for it. We simply have to learn to keep the frequency
and figure out like why this has built up in my system. How do I take care of it? And that means saying, well, what have I taken in for others who need to be travelled out? What responsibilities in my life am I avoiding? So I keep on zooming attention so that I become flat and annoying to be around and I keep asking others to listen to it even if I don't act on it. M
So there's something here and of course it's also with a self-love for yourself that you're not wrong. We all do it together. But the fact that we all do it is not the same as the fact that we have to keep doing it. So it's more of a side effect of being human and having been so survival focused or it's been necessary.
Mm.
So we've come to a place now where we can do something else. And I would say that when we talk about this with s right now as I see it, you'll have a group of people who are more openly receptive than others.
Mm.
And it can be hugely painful to try to talk about how to function with a person who is more closed. And it's not openly closed as if something is better than something else. It's just a fact.
So if you're with people who don't feel the way you do, if you're trying to explain your reality, it's two different radio stations.
Mm.
And very often, as a rule of thumb, you'll typically find that you feel a little bit used or demanded that you listen to the person who is a little bit more closed. And the person may be dark tried doing it consciously. Many times it happens unconsciously, the person doesn't realise he or she is doing it because it's nice to be with someone. Unless you shed light on the person's darkness, then laser yes, it's not asked for. So many times you'll come away feeling like you've eaten a load of sh*** that wasn't yours.
Mm.
And then you can say, well then it's the others' fault. It's not about blame. It's about the fact that it happens. So I would actually say that it's hugely important if you open up, whether you've always been open, i.e. born with a sensitivity or you've started a journey due to life circumstances that make you start opening up to live differently. There's this purgatory phase you have to go through. How the f*** do I navigate this when I'm with people I can actually feel everything? You start like this: ‘s***, it's not mine, and it's mine, and it's not mine.’ The best thing is to actually start to be curious about it and realise, well, a lot of what you feel is not yours. There's such a small difference between that. Because you can go in and you can build up the competence. You can use your own sensitivity to take that skill and train it so that you can actually realise pretty quickly what it is that's mine and that's some childhood, that's some past life, that's something or other. Hey, this one's my dad's or it's not my own. You know, that way you start to take responsibility for your own, so you don't dump on others, and then you start to clean out what's not yours and send it back to the person themselves. And when I say sent back to the person, it's not in a vindictive way. It's actually more with the only way we can, it's not our job to wake other people up, but the only way we can say like this: ‘Hey, you have to take responsibility yourself, I can't bake all your crap. I have to take care of my own. It's actually by lovingly rejecting you. Hey, that's not mine.
M
And one way to reject it is by saying No, you know what, I'm not going to sit here and talk again about you having a bad foot, because you've had it for the last 10 years. You haven't done anything about it, so you have to go to the doctor with that foot,
right? Well, no, I've been listening to that for much longer. That's really sad. It's probably time you did something about it. Or if you don't choose to do something about it, then you should probably not talk about it. So that you actually say no
actually stand in the field and have the courage to speak up. And sometimes, especially from an empath, it's the hardest thing ever because you can feel all the person's pain. You don't want to hurt the person. Boundary setting is typically very, very difficult for an empath.
Mm.
So if you're open or starting to open up, you're going to have to learn boundary setting. All people have to.
Yes, they do.
But it's huge because then you become a living
simply. And then you can risk being in a way where you
identify yourself as particularly sensitive. It becomes a narrative that you can't stand to be around anyone.
Yes, you can't.
Because you actually feel everything.
So it's something about taking action and learning to push it out of your field. Well, that's not mine. And so on and so forth. And that and that's why there might be some fields that you don't want to be in because you don't have, if people don't clean up their fields, then at some point it would push itself in. M
so then just being stuck in a house with a lot of people, where you're being squeezed in with other people, it can feel awful if you're sensitive or open.
Where if you're outside, it might be better if you can step back a bit, right?
So it's both knowing that yes, if you feel a lot, being around a lot of people will typically drain you, because the time and day we live in right now, not many people care about us, not many people realise this. Conversely, you can also be powerful in your field, so you become a bit of a tough guy, so people can't actually put hooks in and actually don't get to do that, so they actually leave you alone.
And I would say that's pretty crucial, because then it's you who decides whether you want to be in a group field or not. It's not about the dirtiness or unconsciousness of the group field that makes you feel like you can't. So the way to take more responsibility for the being you are and the way you are put together, I would say.
So with sensitivity, that's it, but then to talk about opening up and what does that mean? How do you deal with it? What do you feel and differentiate in it and to a large extent take responsibility for your own
but also take responsibility for saying no to what is not your own and it is difficult and the most difficult of the relationships
you've had going way back old friends family
Yes
because there you will h if you have been empathetic because when you were born then you will definitely have some relationships where they have taken to sucking on you, which is a pacifier.
Mm.
And where you constantly understand their perspective and give them a little, because you can always stretch. I get it, and yes, you're a bit, you're a bit tough and stuff. You've also had a tough childhood and all that. You like that, but lately you're stretching yourself beyond recognition. And you're so drained that you're a shadow of your former self.
And it's also possible that you can see the triggers on this and this and this and this and this and this. Well, I don't want to talk about that. Even if I think it's interesting, I won't. You tie yourself in a lot of knots. At one point or another. Too many empaths wouldn't be able to cope and that's good, because you'll succumb. And when that happens, that relationship will die. In the sense that either it dies by falling apart. You find a new way of being together because the person wakes up and says, God, you're right. Or you've changed and I still want to get to know you, even though I'm kind of storming off on you right now. But you know, my love for you is so strong that I'm willing to look at mine too, and then we can find a new way to be together.
Or it dies when the person digs in their heels and says, I'm fucking entitled to you listening to me, and you correct me, and you're selfish. So make a projection on that.
Mm.
Um. Where it can then be that the relationship falls apart. And there you will also find out that I hear many open, sensitive people who beat themselves over the head with, I should have left those relationships many years ago.
Mm.
And some of this is also sometimes, there's a kind of timing in it, because sometimes it's extremely anxiety-provoking for the body when relationships are broken, because there's also an alliance, there's support, there's security, and everyone needs empaths. So sometimes you can't, sometimes there are some relationships you only dare to question at a certain point in your life, because otherwise it's simply too violent for you, because your instincts might tell you about this relationship once I show who I am, and I say no, I can't deal with that, or no, I can't come and help with that, or no, I have to do something else, or I don't actually want to do that, that it's not certain the relationship can bear it. There may well be an explosion, and especially if it's with people who haven't worked on themselves and can't handle an explosion, they won't typically do anything to clean up, because they would expect you to do that. M
you usually stretch, you usually reach out, you usually take care of that. But this situation where you're stuck, you're no longer doing that. And it's not certain that they're going to take on the role and then it falls apart, right?
Yes, they will.
So it's an exciting and challenging journey.
Yeah, it is. I thought it might be interesting to try to come up with some different examples of different variations of this.
Mhm.
That you can bid.
Mm-hm.
Would you like to come up with some different ones from your own practice and of course there's what you've experienced yourself. And that
that's also what else can it look like?
Yes, yes.
Erm.
Yes, that's right. And there you can say the way that can be good rules of thumb in relation to approaching each other relationally when we sense that there's something in a relationship, right? And because we're such a young species, and we're only, we're only really practising relational skills now, it's when typically when you sense there's something about a relationship, you wake up earlier in the morning and think about it, or you can feel a friction in your body when you think about the other person, or you become so afraid to reach out, or you're confused. You're confused about what's going on in this relationship that's gone haywire. It's not always that there's an active conflict. It could just be that you feel like, phew, there's something going on. There's something that's unsaid. And that means you want to start there. And the best thing you can do is to actually go in and follow these frequencies and practise following these frequencies inside you in relation to finding out if in this mud that's lying right here I have projections on the person has the person got a new job that triggers me has the person said something that has been gnawing at me so you have to find you have to sort through the haystack for these different needles that are there so that's the first step and then there's also the second step it's sometimes to find out sometimes you feel something because the person has something on you that they haven't said
Yeah
because we're really bad at saying things to each other because we love each other have this thing about losing the relationship, can I figure it out, I'd rather sit here and tell the truth. You know, we're really, we're children in terms of relational integrity. I mean, we're really bad at it because we're such a young species. But that's not an excuse to get our fingers out and practice, right?
Have you ever said young species?
What do you mean by that?
Well, as the species we are, as HomoS, we're not very old in terms of the whole consciousness journey. What do we have as a species? Do we have like 50,000 years or something? I know we've been a million years thinking into a potential here.
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So if we see what we have the opportunity to develop into,
and you're kind of into Steven's way of looking at it here, right?
Among other things and, uh, and clutter and the whole conscious evolution of consciousness, you could say, right?
Which has a perspective that, well, we have a huge amount of potential, also what you know what is said and what spiritual science and has said throughout and also our early spiritual writings which then interpreted the religious doctrines, right?
So you see it as a kind of maturity journey work, so go on from here. Yeah. Yes.
With a potential that lies
we have a potential to master the relational with extreme and an extreme degree of
unconditional love be an enormous freedom, i.e. an enormous everyone who has
worked with soul energy so worked with higher higher self and have you know channelled higher self and have had a practice with it or with you know archangels or guides or what what what what what you now or practice, so now have had peak experiences. Anyone who has a spiritual practice and who has moved into other layers of consciousness, that kind of consciousness, when you come into contact with something that was experienced as we call it higher. It's just a linguistic thing. There is an enormous beautiful freedom in it.
You can easily have some truths formulated for you. Well, you know, you're a bit off there, and it hurts a bit there, and you mess up there, but there's never a judgement. There's never a criticism, there's never a judgement. There's always like, well, that's your life path. There's such a huge, uh, there's a huge loving consciousness in it. Mm.
And it's not outside of us. It's a potential we have. Then we wouldn't be able to feel it. It's just not, we just can't hold it for very long. So then we fall into the mud and point fingers and stuff like that, right? And other things have to go out on Facebook and all that.
So it could be an indicator that you've moved on, that you don't have a judgement on the other person, or that you don't have a
Yes, you can actually get to the point where you can see someone who actually triggers you and calls you nasty things and you know preaches all sorts of behaviours that they have, but that you know you don't really have. You've worked through them, but the person hasn't worked through them, so you get projected for it. You can stand there and see all that without being tricked.
Without getting angry or vengeful or you know sleepy or you can you see it for what it is. You see they're trapped. You see they're in reaction, you see they're in pain that they can't handle and they take it out on you. But it's just not the same.
It's just that.
Yeah, it's...
But there's just not that frictional tension. So you don't allow yourself to be dragged into the yawning match. Mm.
Where you fight back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's really more like you're just stuck on no, I don't recognise that. And if that's the way it is, I don't want to exchange that, so I'll move.
Yes, that's right. So it's not like in New Age, there's something about, well, you're open-hearted, and then you're kind of loving towards everyone and give hugs and stuff like that. What do you think about
the worst thing? Imagine, it's very much so. The whole thing about love and all that pink stuff, it's really awful.
And a lot of new age is actually about trying to avoid the darkness because there's such a deep, deep fear of it. There's nothing wrong with darkness.
Darkness can be pure power and you need to stand up to something. Are you facing a narcissistic psychopath? Then you definitely need some power, right?
Mm.
So it's actually about holding your boundaries when others try to force you to change your behaviour.
So that's also why the New Jew can quickly be infiltrated by narcissists for example, right? And and and and gurus, which are actually likeable traits. I mean that's all of them, right? But they're there. Believe me, they're there because they feed on that s***, right?
So there's nothing wrong, I like to go up. upwards and can so it's enormously delicious soul energy higher frequencies they are insanely delicious m
it and you can and you and you and if you are an open person then so then so then the darkness and hardness and familiarity can be difficult but it is actually water the more open you are the more important it is that you dare to own the darkness also especially your own darkness but also one of thinking that you own your own darkness but that you can see it in others if you do not understand the darkness in others then you cannot reject it
So you have to understand that love, unconditional love, is the sharpest sword there is because love sends back. If true love wants to see immaturity over here and say you are not maturing by me taking responsibility. So it says no you have to do it yourself.
Yes
I mean really. So it's very misunderstood that with an open mind you have to go and hug and exchange with everyone who pushes into you remember you e push back
but with equal pressure. You can be a powerful bad a** boundary setter without being the trick. If you can, it's because in the news environment you can come to connect that when you set boundaries and stand powerful, that it's the same as being triggered down here and rummaging around in the dark. It's not. You can easily be conscious and powerful at the same time.
So you shouldn't be afraid of the power. I understand that you are. It's incredibly important to become conscious in the darkness and in the power.
Then you're powerless and then you become
Or you only have to be with someone who is exactly like yourself and then you become a little feeding mechanism. But then you also split here because then it's us against them
as we understand when you're completely into, you know, you eat meat and you do all sorts of polluting things and stuff like that. So we become more and more like, I can only wear white clothes, I can only eat this, I'm going to see with that too. I can't be near you at all. You can't live at all. So the more you cut yourself off from the lower chakras and don't work with the darkness, integrate it, the more powerless you become, the more anxious and fearful you become, and the more unbearable you can actually be to be around because you're afraid of everything and you can't talk about things.
Mm. Then there's negative energy, and so and so has ego. And then you get offended by that, for example, if you don't feel like hugging in such a setting because you don't actually want to, then it's actually good to add that the things that we found out that there is an outer layer through seven chakras, which is a
a kind of golden shell around the labour. And if you can actually go in and work directly with patching and repairing it. It's structured and has that gold m
gold uh frequency.
Mm.
And we've worked on both yours and mine in terms of patching holes. Many holes. And for each layer of the edge, there have actually been sails for each chakra, so there are some closures and some protection, they can be penetrated, perforated
by something being pressed into them
also through these shortcuts that squeeze in.
Yes, that's right.
Um, so there's also an energy work behind it.
Mm.
Um, so it doesn't start with, well, it doesn't start with the fact that you might, but you have energy, um, which becomes sharper the more you work with this,
then you get to a place where you can feel, well, I can simply feel my field all the way out. And in that connection, I have some important things I'd like to say.
Mm.
Uh, your personal difficulty is actually uh if a person is physically very very close to you, then some of your natural defences energetically are actually broken.
Yes, it is.
We've seen examples of fathers physically crowding their boys all the time and physically getting very close to them and using
it's simply a way of bypassing the natural defences that are inherent in an encounter.
So if you have this feeling, it's a well-known fact that in sociology that people have an intimate relationship with their m
It's also an interesting thing that it varies. It varies from culture to culture. If you live in a big city, the zim sword might be more compressed.
Mm.
Erm, if you live in the countryside, it might be bigger depending on how and where.
Mm.
But the intimate sword should be understood literally as well.
Mm.
And the fact that people get close to you and it's uncomfortable. It's not just some feeling you have, that's fine.
And it's not just you who struggles with trust.
It's not. So one of the things I do is I actually keep a certain distance when I can sense someone I don't want to have that type of exchange with. Mm.
So I kind of take a step back.
Mm.
And make sure there's distance.
Mm.
Unless the person has been waiting to approach me, which usually doesn't happen, then they will accept that boundary.
Yeah, yeah.
Um. So I'm aware of how close I am to people in relation to my field.
Mm.
I've practised expanding and contracting it more depending on the context I'm in.
But compressing my field is not really something I find very comfortable either. So that's why I like it better when it takes up more space.
Yes, exactly. More freedom.
Yeah, yeah. M
erm, but for my, er, chair, now you've got it, it's a very beautiful and specific and feminine way of describing the work. It would have been too much to go in and feel
mm
I suddenly think of this person. It worries me enormously. I feel pain in my stomach.
Mm.
Should I act on it? Should I go out? Whereas a lot of women might and at least some people will pull it inwards, and I did that too, but
is there something wrong with me?
Mm.
And it runs some things they've said and you're like, what's wrong with you, and something's stuck and you're like, wondering about it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You can go in and work with what's in the energy field, work with frequencies. You can work on opening up. And I would also say that there has typically been something lying around that has had a resonance in the system.
Mm.
And that's not to say that you're wrong or anything. It's the journey where we actually start to do something different. We start by being here.
Yeah, yeah.
Like a clan sitting around the fire. We share, we share energy.
We look after each other. That means we share resources, but we also share attention.
Uh, and that attention, by the way, often goes to the leader and people higher in the hierarchy. So when you want to attract attention, you get more up the hierarchy. So employees give to managers who give to the
right. And sociological, if you look at group studies, well, people generally look more to the leader or what they see as the informal leader. Mm.
They simply look at that person. You can break out of that too.
Mm.
And in that way you realise that, but it really requires a radical attitude that everyone is equal.
Mm.
They are equally good as beings.
Mm.
And it sounds paradoxical when we talk about speaking out and standing firm and saying, I don't want to be part of that.
M. Mm.
But you don't have to be very verbal. You can actually do it in incredibly subtle ways, where
basically, if we have someone who is used to it, it will create sparks.
But if you get there and you meet people who don't have a history of sucking up to you and using you as a pacifier and you've given
or you've had violent exchanges that have taken on the character of such a mutual island, almost a bit vengeful
m
and that's something you can experience if you pick a fight with another man I experienced as a young man
if you then push them over the limit, i.e. they make an attack
mm
if I push to the limit, it doesn't give the recoil that it does if I go beyond
But if you have a hard time with boundaries and become m Then you will, even if you're not designed that way in a man's body, it can also be a woman, but in any case a man's body, you'll want to punch the other one.
Mm.
And it's relatively quick, you're ready for battle. And for men, one of the things that provokes them is getting close. Staring into their eyes.
It's signalling that you're looking down on each other.
Er, for awe, er, scorn.
And what's in there is actually that we have this, uh, you're under me and you have to give me attention, and you have to do it. You may also have to do what I say, but it's also that you have to supply me.
Mm. And if you can stand radically in that you are equal.
Mm.
But you have the person, you don't have to give the other person anything, so I would say you can actually get to a place where you can treat people in the hierarchy.
Mm.
That way, no matter who you meet, you'll experience a completely different cleaner who feels seen and welcomed.
And in the same way, no matter where you are in the hierarchy.
So you can actually go in and meet other people
completely regardless of status. Exactly.
But if you find yourself, uh, being fascinated by a person,
Mm.
and give them attention, um, then you're, you're in a, uh, a love situation where you're projecting something onto them.
Exactly.
Erm,
it goes both ways. Both if you're like, I wish I was like you, or if you're like, shut up, I don't want to be like you. I mean, you know, it's both, right? It can go down or you can go up.
And it's inspired, so it's also a hierarchical here I would like to give my power away.
So there's also a
There's also a spectrum of giving your power away.
And I have to make a comment on that, because I know a lot of people sit out there like, oh my god, I do that all the time and feel affected by it.
I do that too.
We all do it. We do it, there's nothing wrong with that. We do that. But we can we can get conscious. So if you see someone you think no, where are you when you speak, are you beautiful or the way you work or whatever it is you are hugely captivated by something of that person can then say no how wonderful I'm inspired that there are some aspects of this being that I want to activate in myself. Yes
And if it's the shadow sides then it's like f*** that behaviour triggers me. What is it okay what is it exactly what triggers it in me? You become curious about yourself in it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So therefore in that way you can use it as a gift. It's such a cliché, right? But there's something about it. It's more so you don't sit and feel wrong, because we all do it. And that we can't stop it
right now, but we can bring awareness to it and work with it. So we don't uncritically project out.
Yes. And because we're in a phase of maturation, if you could call it that. If it goes the way we see ourselves.
Yes. Yes, it is.
It's a potential, it's a possibility, we don't know if it will happen.
Mhm.
Then some of us will go further down that road than others.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we've come a long way. And then we've kind of experienced what does that do to the relationship and how do you deal with it, that difference?
Exactly.
I also feel that the difference of working with it has made a huge difference in terms of how I deal with my children.
Mm.
Because when they become, uh, my biological son can allow himself to become extremely furious and so on and go off on me and things like that, where previously I would feel frustration and anger and get to actually judge him and think, now you have to behave properly. Then I can actually stand like a rubber ball.
Mm.
Where he just throws it at me.
Mm. Then I stay in it and hold on to
the boundaries you've created or
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Without moralising, without talking about it.
But it doesn't work little mate. Now you're continuing to do this and that. And we had agreed that we would do that,
you know. And that's when this race burns out. Yeah, exactly.
And there we go from, you could say, realising that I'm just me. It's all unfair to that. There's nothing wrong with me.
Um, but I got frustrated that my power was reaching a limit and what I wanted to do was something else or it felt
exactly
and that's part of this maturation journey in relation to that and that way you can also meet others where you don't
you're not reactive to it
Exactly
but you should know that it takes effort to stand in it
mm
so if the if the other person doesn't want to work into this then you will and and they keep trying
Yes, and
then it can wear you out
Yes, it can
in a relationship
Yes, so it's something about being a little offs on also if you have a partner you want to take on can be with can be with anyone anywhere because there isn't there we don't you will we all fall into unconsciousness.
So because we are primarily still in the shadow stages and as a species and this again I mean we have so much potential for so much beautiful behaviour between us but we are messing around right now and a lot of it my reading is that we are a young species and so hopefully you know we make it through shitting in our own nest and having two eyes and stuff like that without you know exterminating people now we have to see we have at least potential to have enormously beautiful same existence.
Mhm.
Which we then unfold. No, time will tell. But you could say that thing about figuring out who can you work with? Because you shouldn't be afraid of the darkness in yourself. You shouldn't be afraid, like you said one day, that it's okay when you act like a three-year-old. You're allowed to do that. Because that's part of it too. We can't always hold it. Sometimes we get into something. And that's because if we're afraid of it, we have to walk like this all the time and be so perfect or something. And then we separate ourselves even more from the shadow.
So it's actually a matter of sometimes we get pressurised and project and blame others and then suddenly we wake up in it. It's actually more about when we realise that maybe it's me who's rambling from here right now. Maybe I don't have a grip right now when the race is dragging on so you realise okay it was f*** my what my dad had f*** and it was childhood again or I was tired and hungry and then I wanted to be like a three-year-old wanting you to take care of me or whatever it might be
that we dare to say it in vulnerability and work with it
And here's the thing you can notice about the people you travel with in life: if they actually manage to do that, they manage to take responsibility. Can they come back and say, okay, I can do that. I just got that scorch that was like another, you know, dragon that just got burned. I'm so fucking sorry. I can see it was that it was my own thing. M
Well, if you can take that journey together, then it won't be dangerous that you
going down by the head first in moderation.
Yes. And there I would say, as you see we saw a very funny meme, I can maybe put it on when we have on YouTube. Oh, so a narcissist takes notes of your love language and all your traumas to use later as an entry point, right?
Exactly.
That's a very good example of the opposite. So we have people that we find that we share vulnerability with and then later on, when it's a situation where you're not a supply anymore,
Mm.
you're suddenly not in the loop, and then this is used.
Yes, exactly.
And of course you can say that, can you predict that? Yes, maybe you can. There are some indicators of it because, um, if the other person always thinks it's someone else's fault, and now we have a great lecture on both cranks and mentality and narcissistic defences. And then you can go to British Grannon, and you can go to Ramani, and there are a lot of good guards, maybe even if you think he's a bit special.
He's a narcissist himself.
At least that's what he says. Erm,
but you can definitely say that there's something here. There is an insight, because when we have what we could call an extreme case, because it is an extreme case when we are dealing with people with a personality disorder,
who consciously or unconsciously attract plasma,
puts hooks in you and sucks. And requires you to keep going and stay like a, imagine a parasite that sits still when it gets its nourishment, but the moment it senses there's a little bit of resistance, or we're going to separate, it goes like this, it holds on, and then it squeezes you,
and it's not afraid to suck the life out of you, because then it just has to find another host.
And it sounds really harsh to talk about people in this way. But when I look at it energetically, when we've worked with it, it's not because they have tentacles, but there are some things they shoot into the aura.
There are some places where they go in and put reality games into you that are supposed to make you feel that it's your fault, or that you have to,
if you have shame, if you're used to feeling wrong, if you're used to turning it inwards, then you're good.
Yeah, you're a total winner. They find out exactly where you turn it inwards, and then they run with it, so you take the blame for something they've done, and they're free of it.
So you can say uh, it can sound quite shameful, but I would say it's an excellent development path.
Excellent.
Um, there's not, I don't recommend anyone to do it consciously, but those who find themselves in relationships with people with illnesses, mindset, mentality and so on.
There's definitely a deep potential here.
Um, so for doubt. No, it can be done.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, that's right. Is there anything we want to cover? Do you want to say more now? Talk for an hour.
There's maybe say, there's maybe just this archetypal dance between, you know, the victim and the offender that I could just link to, because that's kind of the
we've been dancing that dance for a really long time.
Mhm.
As human beings. And that, you know, you say it in all our films and mythology and stuff, it's there all the time.
And I think we're starting, we're in an honour now where we actually have the potential to step out of that dance.
I think we do, yeah.
And it may well be, I think right now I think we're actually taking some crucial steps to make that possible, so that our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, so at some point in human history, if we live as far as 300 years down that road,
I don't think that dance will be played out anymore. I think it's simply a disease between humans that has arisen from evolution so far. It's a side effect of evolution's so far. Is having a little bit of consciousness available in the body of a mammal fighting for survival.
Mhm.
So right now I would say there's huge potential to step out of it.
So I think if you take anything away from this, it's more like how the hell can I step out of the victimiser position myself? But it's not that you're doing it wrong, because there will still be people who specifically suck up to you. So where you're like well, I've been in a relationship where I've allowed myself to think that I knew it.
Mm.
When you see it, when you become aware of it, expect the person to go on a rant. The person who is caught in a dynamic, who hasn't seen it and who is benefiting from it, will scream shout, will wriggle like something and will try to get you to stay there. And that's regardless of whether the psychopath is consciously aware of it, or whether they are deeply unconscious in their patterns. But for you, it doesn't really matter if the person is conscious or not conscious, because it's equally uncomfortable.
But you will still have to stand and free yourself from it.
Yeah, that's right.
So there it is right now, and it's just that this dance has been played with huge unconsciousness on our earth for a very, very long time. And we're all in it together in one way or another.
Mm.
But some live it out more vehemently by being with someone who is decidedly abusive. And I would actually say that this is where the greatest risk of getting lost in it is, but there is also the greatest potential for actually stepping out. And the more people who manage to step out and step out of that struggle, that's actually what creates a possible new future. That we eventually completely leave that way of being in relationships behind.
Yeah, yeah. Um. I think I also want to put some words on the group.
Mm.
Because now we've got the rough end of the stick here.
Mm.
What often happens when you say, well, I don't really want to see you, or I don't want to make an appointment with you. Or if I'm in a business context, say well, we've met four times now, and I haven't really seen anything concrete that you've done, or you know, people get offended,
but then you get the freezer, and what they'll do. It's typical to go and frown about it and then you go either slander or don't slander. And there's something here where you can experience that the group field with other people turns against you.
Yes, that's true.
Erm, and that and that and that's that, so that's a possibility.
Mm.
There are places where you can't gracefully get out of it without the risk that there are some people who think one thing or another about you
and have no problem saying it again and again and again behind your back to others.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. And so you could say that when we're dealing with behaviour behind the area's back, it's a bit like you can protect yourself, they can say that if you've been mentally ill, they can say it's also because you've had a mental illness, and she also has problems with anxiety or
so different or
yes it is and you know and you could also use whether I'm particularly sensitive or I'm also empathetic or it probably won't be useful but you'll probably say I'm particularly sensitive or I'm introverted or something else I'd like to say well uh you can use that you have to be aware of giving yourself a role here
m
as if it's wrong
mm
it's risky.
Yes, it is.
Because then it makes you stand by yourself and hold on to what you really want to be part of and not part of in a smooth and elegant way.
Mm.
Erm. Without making that you're not going into the social field to create a disruption,
but you can also choose to say, I'm withdrawing from this context, because I can see that I'm not contributing to it. I don't support I don't support this context.
Mhm. Exactly.
So when we're in, you have to be a little aware of whether you're using these kinds of roles and predicates on yourself to excuse yourself. That you don't actually thrive in a group.
Conversely, in my experience, telling the group that it's an unhealthy environment doesn't get you anywhere. Typically, they will turn against you. And if they have a leader, and every group I've been a part of has had either a hidden or a conscious leader,
exactly.
Um, you're just going to be ostracised.
So what I would recommend is to approach this with such grace, that is, with practice and trial and error, and then become good at avoiding that trick when you go in and out of groups. M
and you can do that. You can get to the point where
that your colleagues are used to you coming, but you don't usually come to the summer party, and you know without having said anything that you don't actually like the atmosphere, and you find it annoying, and you get weighed down by it,
where you just say, well, I prioritise my family more and we, you know, I share children, so it's kind of important, so it's more important for me to see them than colleagues, and we see each other all day, but I think it sounds nice, but it's not really for me and I don't really like it.
It's not like that, it's just not for me.
Mm.
If they if you go into a group like that from the start rather than trying to stretch themselves, m
then they'll find it much, much easier to deal with it.
Yeah, exactly. They know you've got you.
If you start by compromising and pushing yourself into a social context, because you should, then you'll have a hard time pulling yourself back out.
Exactly.
Because then there's something wrong. So the group has like an in-group, outgroup. Erm,
then there must be something wrong with the person, because we can't have it that there's something in the group that's not good.
Mm. So therefore it becomes a split. It becomes a dualism. So it's really about avoiding criticising what people have together. Then you get the least possible kickback on and accurate.
And then when you've gone far enough, you can simply say: ‘Well, that group isn't really for me. Or those things, I have some other things I'm spending my energy on. So it's not that important to me right now. So you can be very elegant in the way you manage this.
M
and the path to that elegance can be a bit of a struggle. Something has sparked a bit, right? Because you've just, you can both tried to hide yourself completely, tie yourself in knots to be in a group and then say no and try to shed light on why it's not working and then get some things.
I've been through all these things so it's not to say
not to say and I know that women have a lot to do with being perfect and think you are welcome to hit you and I have also experienced being enormously furious and thus experienced taking up conflicts in the family and seen how it falls apart h tried all the iterations.
M
um, but that's just to say that if you work long enough you can get to the point where it's very very effortless. Exactly.
And that uh that's more to give hope for that,
but you have to go through all that to get there.
But it's a beautiful dance. You can just walk right in and then you might have a project together or a little friendship and then it's not like, well, now we're not going any further. Now it's like, now we're going to create over here and stuff like that. Deep gratitude for what we had.
Yes, yes, yes.
Yes. There is a much greater degree of freedom in it.
Yes, there is.
Which has nothing to do with selfishness.
I have this thing here on the falls I would say this feeling of gratitude from the heart.
Mm.
If you give and the other person and you stop or just say no, well I can't give more or I have nothing more to say. If you experience gratitude there,
Mm.
then it's accepted with what it is. But if you experience
a kickback that now you're not giving more of some kind, then it comes from a thoughtful love, an expectation that you give.
Mm.
And you need to be aware that there are some people who can get into such an expectation spiral,
that now I have given you, and now I have done. So you have to be aware that there are some people who do you favours, who try to stretch you.
Mm.
Who are actually in the process of trying to put in the box.
Mm.
Um, that you owe them. They exist. They do.
I've met quite a few of them. Um.
So that's why there are tips here. Be very aware not to actually accept help or you know just a little something for somebody that you can also just borrow or I have also you're going to do some bonding here.
Mm.
So the people you accept something from, do they do that? Can they let go of that object or do they have a hook in that this thing or what they do for you is a favour that they stretch you, so if they don't get anything in return, then there is a bitterness or an irritation. I always do something for you and you don't do anything for me.
Mm.
Having said that, you can get to a place where you're an exchange, where it comes from gratitude, but you're still there for each other. So you can get over this. But it's just a point of attention that I would recommend that you pay close attention to.
Exactly and be aware of it in yourself too,
if you constantly say yes to things because you feel you should, or you want to, or you start to feel annoyed that now I always help you, so when I need help, you don't come and help me.
Well, it's actually, it's actually more like, if there's someone you think you always pay the bill when you go out to eat, then don't.
Well, don't,
don't.
So you've stretched and then you've done the same. So you've expected them to come and feed you or do something for you or
so we're actually trying to dismantle these dependency bonds, which is I give you a gift, next time you give me a gift, and we have an exchange,
and, um...
so on and so forth it goes. That's the behaviour.
It doesn't mean you can't give and receive gifts, but you have to be very aware also, if you give it, that if you feel you're overstretching, you probably are.
That's a good indicator.
That's a good indicator.
Mm.
Um. Yeah, yeah,
exactly.
So now we can Then I asked now we haven't either, so
so we'll probably talk a lot more about that.
Yes, we will.
Yes, we will.
Um, but thank you for listening.
Thank you very much.
