Podcast E27: The Masculine Path to Opening the Heart

This podcast features a conversation between Sune Sloth and Mette Miriam Sloth, offering unique insights into the inner world of men. It also provides women with tools to understand and support men on their journey towards greater emotional openness.

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  The podcast explores men's emotional closedness, its underlying causes, and what can be done about it. Drawing from Sune Sloth's own journey into masculine consciousness, the discussion examines the blockages that often exist within the male energy system.

  These blockages can stem from various sources: conscious or subconscious traumas, fixed mindsets, emotional blockages like envy, and physical closures that can be difficult to process.

  Men often seek "tough" methods to break through these barriers, such as extreme sports or psychedelic substances. However, these external approaches rarely resolve the deeper underlying issues.

  Women play a significant role in men's opening process. When women work on themselves and live powerfully, it can inspire men to open up emotionally. However, it's crucial that women don't pressure men to change.

  The podcast encourages men to pay attention to other men's lives, not just their words. They should seek out role models who demonstrate success in their personal lives and relationships.

  The importance of honesty and freedom in love is emphasized. Love is portrayed not just as sweetness and light, but also as a brutally honest force.

• Transcript

  Translated transcript of the original Danish podcast

  Hosts: Mette Miriam Sloth & Sune Sloth

  Sune Sloth: Yes, welcome to the Magdalene Effect podcast number 27 part 1. Sune Sloth: Hello. Yes, we're going to talk about men's closures today. What can you do about them? Is there anything she can do? Why are they there? Yes, it's going to be a journey into the male consciousness, if you will. And this is what we're talking about. Today, we have very little evidence. We have my journey, and then there are a few men that we help. And that's because there aren't many who want to go that way, or they haven't got anything or don't find it interesting where it was. So it must be a travelling note of how much we're getting out yet. For the data set that says in 20 years, we can probably map it a little better. So that's what it is. Jes. A little bit into the topic. So let's start by talking about closures. What are we thinking?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Home closures. Closures can be several things. You can have a closure because you're carrying a trauma that you realise is there and not there. That is, every time you have an interaction with someone and it can flare up and reactivate that trauma. Then you close around it to protect it. And here you either stay reactive or push people away or adapt or however you fit the two. So it can be a closure. It can also be a mental closure, that you have a belief that the world is set up in a very specific way. Politics and mess together or religion or spirituality or whatever the hell it might be. And that means that if you encounter a perspective that turns your understanding of the world upside down or is at risk of overturning your understanding, you lock. You'll lock yourself into your own understanding of reality. If you don't wear it, and it will typically be unconscious. And then, of course, there are also locks in the emotional body. So you might be talking to someone and they have. Reached a point in their life where they've achieved something you've longed for, so you feel envious. Or it could be that you yourself are in a place where you have experienced something beautiful. But when you try to share, you can see that they close.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: So this is what you can do in conversations where it doesn't flow freely because it hits some of our different longings or our desires, as you like, that there is a fantasy on. We can find it very, very difficult to accommodate others, so it can also affect you. So that means you can be with people and then suddenly feel very, very sad or upset or angry or grumpy without quite explaining why. Then it has hit something in you that we call a shadow side. So there are too many of these closures, and they can also be they can't be. They are also in the body bodily closures can be very painful and many are inherited, so it's simple, If you. If you've started travelling, cleaning out the collective unconscious of your own DNA, then at some point you reach down into the body and clean out. There are fear traces basically human fear because it would be so survival orientated for so long and so violently. You may have seen that this is sent into the body, and when the light hits, it fucking hurts. But the thing that measures the light has to be massaged in and penetrate it. It is sent, but here you want to clean out or transform the mental body over the astral body. The emotional body first. I can get something into the body without it, but otherwise you will typically encounter closures when you work with them, either as mental locks or emotional locks.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: When they start to ease, you kind of chew your way through many of them. Then you'll hit the physical ones, where nothing really comes up. There might not be any fears, there might not be any antibodies. Trauma or past lives might not come up. Trauma that's just nice until it lands, so it's with closure. And that's it. It's not just men who have closures, women very much do too. You could say the forms of human interaction we have right now, in the time we live in. Right now, most of it is actually based on production and closures, and that's because we've been so. Survival mode. So we've basically been in fight and flight for the last fifty thousand years, so it has to give a little bit of lockdowns here and there. So. But, but we also carry higher frequencies, unconditional love, ecstasy, beauty, hope, truth. And when they start to come down, they'll actually hit different things down in the body, so the locks in condensed energy that are being held on to trying to protect. So when it gets hit, there's a choice in terms of whether you can run, whether you start opening up to find out why it hurts so much, or whether you squeeze yourself tightly around your closure.

  Sune Sloth: Interesting and. talking about an inside and outside perspective. See where. Many processes you could look energetically and see it. So what does the energetic imprint look like where my exploration has been? How is it experienced and how do you avoid going through different degrees of transformation and forgiveness and so on in what's inside a man? That has been my home. One of the things I've come here to do is to try to walk that journey.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Basically, for you to.

  Sune Sloth: Have an example that you can do that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Also to have the observing to witness the aspect from within even the deepest horror and the deepest darkness, and then go all the way up to the light.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, and then take it with you. So that's why we might switch a little between talking about the inside and the outside. So how is it experienced from a man in perspective.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And what can it look like energetically?

  Sune Sloth: From the outside? Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes. But the starting point is actually that what we call locking of the posterior is actually a normal state, that is, what makes men who they are basically in general. So, there has been a tendency for some men to become more emotional, to feel that there's some therapy and do some mania stuff. Or going to Body SDS or something. It's not nice.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And it's all good.

  Sune Sloth: And I've also taken my turn with a few different ones without wading in with another tweet. I've met someone and had a bonfire with men and sat and talked about feelings, and what struck me was this group of wounded men who are deeply upset and breaking down and all saying Our women don't bother and don't bother us any more. Then my woman is leaving me. Mine can't stand it, mine thinks I haven't become masculine enough. And then I get together with the men in a group and we cry together. And you know, that's my community now. And when I saw that some of them were taking on man 21 and these things, I realised a few years ago that it was getting in the way. With the psychologists who run the groups. He himself has been down for years with depression, at least a long time with depression and has been doing it for a lifetime. And the only thing that can be talked about is how difficult it is to be in life, and I can see that. That's where things come to a standstill.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, you could say that.

  Sune Sloth: It's sad.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, it's sad in a way, if you look at it as one. Where have men come from in terms of being able to articulate emotions and dare to open up? That's a step forward, because it's only a generation ago when it was almost impossible in Denmark. So you can see in the overall picture, there is a progression towards something. And it may well be that you have to, but you have to get to know what the hell brands are right now, and can I grade and can I be vulnerable? That's all great, but there's always a risk of getting stuck in it, and that's the same for women. There's a risk that you get stuck in the same therapy practice for years, where it's the same narrative you dive into and turn upside down, but that condition is still there when you're in everyday life. You lock as you usually do, do it because it's articulating your feelings. Changing your lockdowns. That's also why talk therapy. It soothes, but it does nothing compared to the air. Dec Conversation can be hugely healing to share your story and learn more about it. At the same time, he got a lot. But it's not. Can it? Can't get hold of the locks that are in the toilet and in the emotional body and the body. You can sometimes hit it in.

  Sune Sloth: The heart or.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: The heart. Yes, it can sometimes hit it with talk therapy and psychotherapy. And if there's a process that can hold the person when it hits, it can provide relief. You can get somewhere with that. So ever since Jung and Freud, it became excellent. But at some point you're going to have to go deeper. At some point, you'll get tired of your own searching around in your grief, history, your history of suffering, and that's where responsibility comes in.

  Sune Sloth: Let's take a gender perspective and look at how. How can a journey from a classically closed system, albeit extremely overwhelmed, be violently overwhelmed? Compared to most people in terms of experience? Because it's been my job to investigate a whole lot of things and try it out. I experienced it to roll it out again, to be able to talk about the journey and as an example of what it could look like. Not before. Not to communicate it, but so that when we're faced with someone who helps, I can do it. Then I know exactly when I can feel that I can go in and feel where is. What is it exactly that is in a bit of that consideration. Just that thing. For example, you say, ‘Well, I love my wife, but we don't have sex. I'm staying. And then I start to nag her and ask her if she wants to go to therapy. And then I can just say I can do that. That's where you want to be. And right here in Horsens. I know where you are. So... It's more in relation to understanding the steps and understanding where you are and what the transformation is. One of the things we have. Possibly the difference is that you. When you go into a lockdown. When you go into something that is locked inside the male body. It's like what's in there unfolds and fills everything. Maybe it does that for a woman too, I don't know. Can you be with it in a different way?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: What I can see when I work with women and men is that there are generally some men who just sit quietly and work with them. But it's as if. Mette Miriam Sloth. He's working on a woman where she's sitting while I'm working. She's sitting in her own and then there's a sound and then it hurts. You can't see, she's not moving, and no muscles are moving. Wow, it hurts then. Maybe there's something about women, whether they've had children or not. This life, your body is used to going through intense pain that changes as the nervous system understands it, so it's as if women can better surrender to the one that now hurts like hell. And I trust that it will go away again. And I see that for men, it's almost as if they're constantly clenching their teeth, baring their teeth, their nervous system when we hit them. So some men just lie there screaming in pain. I don't physically touch them at all. Maybe they're sitting in Jutland while I'm talking to men.

  Sune Sloth: And some of the sessions I've attended to observe and support them and go in and work with the energy I'm capable of. And there. If you're able to go into more detail, then you're more able to support and start to clean out and do some lifting in different ways and give us something. But I've seen these men, grown-up craftsmen, who think there's someone coming, but I can't fucking do this. And then they're lying around on the floor. It looks like an exorcism.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, it's not, but it can look like it, can't it?

  Sune Sloth: But it's so tightly knotted and structurally locked into a man's system. You could say I have to generalise a bit based on what we know, so now I see some things, but we men are not used to being in flux. We're not used to being in motion. There are no cycles.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Life's changeability hurts you. It physically hurts you in the opening process, but.

  Sune Sloth: Also the disconnectedness of life. So some of the things we have found are not. That. And it's not a metaphor or philosophically meant that some of the things that have come up have been that when we come down here and split ourselves into something. Into the two genders. Then the man is disconnected from the feminine. Of course, there's also the thing about mum and being away from her and all that, but he's even more disconnected than that, because it's a simplification. But let's just keep in mind that the woman has a sense of being part of the life and death of creation. A man at a certain point may find that he doesn't want to feel that in bed, but that he does. Is one of many variations, and as men have, the greater the variation in intelligence, in violence. I. Has a greater variation and variation spectrum of who becomes homeless, who gets mental illness, who abuses and. But also what they bring to the table. Who can contribute something. So being born and being manifested into a male body. Is a variant and a variant that can be chosen by a woman and thus by Mother Earth or the feminine for reproduction.

  Sune Sloth: To. Through gendered reproduction and the way he knows his system and unites with something universal. It was just whipping away as a little sperm cell. And then he's split into a whole bunch. And then one of the two of them might come to the egg and the egg actually selects to some extent there's something biochemical about it, so it's magical. It is magical. But you can do that. One of the solutions is to actually recognise that you are among the group of men who are in an elimination race to see who gets one. Who gets chosen, who gets a woman who likes them. And if you dive deep enough into it, you realise that even when you have one, and you look at the divorce rate and you look at it. Yes, in the vast majority of cases the woman who says goodbye and the man typically ends up with no network, if in the worst case. He often hasn't nurtured his network and so he's more likely to end up on the streets and down. Not everyone does that, of course.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Statistically, the risk is higher.

  Sune Sloth: You don't want to ask healthcare professionals about it because they don't have networks and numbers, and they don't often go to the doctor and know things like that. And that's also true. I am.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: 21 in excellent.

  Sune Sloth: A. But the fact is that all those men standing there. They are all such a disconnected self.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: There's a level in them that we've also encountered today. Well, there can be both the rage against the feminine and I know why I am. And thus I also know my unworthiness. I'm not worthy. There are many layers to that. Yes, and conversation can do that. It can. Groups of men just can't get there together. They can soothe each other, but we can't get there, and it has nothing to do with the individual man. It's something to do with the male body, i.e. being.

  Sune Sloth: We have fallen.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Out in.

  Sune Sloth: Dogmatics and in the sense that we don't really see men. What we can see energetically, you can't get hold of in other ways.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: No, I have that.

  Sune Sloth: There are ways in which changes happen, but if something is torn apart, split up, going the wrong way, the fire is smashed or dead. You can't solve that from the inside with breathing.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Or ice-cold baths. Or no, you can't.

  Sune Sloth: And in that way, it's not everything that's a lockdown like some of the things its priest and sitting.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Or a tear in the energy system or. Ok, there are many.

  Sune Sloth: Which can be sewn together.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Crystals that have been added at some point in evolution, and which just as now are a limitation that was necessary at the time. We've also noticed this when we've opened and worked with the certain things that have come up. It's also the fact that it actually couldn't, while the system actually couldn't withstand too much high frequency, which is irradiated too much, and that's far too hard on a system. So he actually has to shut down and shut up over time. So when women say why doesn't he just close up if he closed up his heart or his heart? I came and got it before flux, which women are kind of like a woman can because they She's a little more seasoned in oxytocin bonding and opening up. She also has all sorts of issues. It's not that lying down. She's like, why not just feel the love more? Because he's never done that. He's been in the shadow of love forever, so if he gets completely out in the sun, he'll get burned. It will short-circuit his system.

  Sune Sloth: It's actually a journey of being. Deeply, deeply structural. Locked on all sorts of boxes, inside boxes, with the key thrown away. And then. Getting to the point where there really is no form that he identifies with other than when it needs to manifest, or there needs to be another form. We talk about him finding his feminine, it's too primitive. I had to say it, but that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Is there.

  Sune Sloth: Not now. In that way it's not, and it's all energy and so on. But the difference here is that. The system it's put into has been shaped by two years of evolution, and that means some of the main themes that come up. Basically, you connect sexually with a woman and. There are some men who can feel the call of the heart, but when they start to open up, it's the colour that comes when a woman confesses she's good. Then comes some small doses of. No, it was so nice. You can be like that too. So even when the woman meets him and she doesn't really understand. She loves him, and she fills in the gap so little that he must necessarily feel the same.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And it's not because there's something wrong with him, or because he can't or won't or where he can't, but because he just. He could just open up. He can't just do that.

  Sune Sloth: That would actually say yes, if it comes. Then come down in small doses. It's a relatively big transformation. Or it is for women too, of course, but there's a dynamic, something dynamic in it. Where a woman who has experienced something of that nature. She doesn't think I can't go to work, unless it's uncomfortable, she feels bad. But in a man's body, it's kind of like that. My worldview has completely changed. I can go out and talk to people at all. You can do that. But everything you've held on to falls apart. And as a man, you'll be in a vacuum where you don't know what's going to come up next. Simply know.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And you also do that as a woman travelling. I've also experienced this on my own journey. Look at the women I work with. But it's as if. Not all women. The women who have become very masculine infected, if you like, are the same and letting go and the unknown, whatever we should call it. It's really scary to say, because for men it's as if they're simply afraid of becoming psychotic.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, there is one. It can be experienced as a psychotic border. Reality falls apart. It's very funny for the men I know who have worked male steg escort something they try to push to that limit. I don't think they would do that if they had experienced it dissolving and they wake up in everyday life and reality is put together differently. It's as if these drugs have a special appeal to men because they think girls have experienced that the world is different. And then they come back and talk a lot about it. But they haven't really integrated anything. When I look at their relational. That's a generalisation. Of course, because there can. You can also get hold of something in this way, but I've also done that myself. But, but, but over all I see. Relatively, I've met relatively many men who take us down trips and sponge us down, where I don't find that their perspective on their inner world from the inside out. Especially in the relational, hasn't changed. So if you talk to their woman, them, have you tried talking to some of them? What does the woman say?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: She will say? Then he comes home from that trip, and maybe he's nice and relaxed and open. Or something else? First 24 hours, then he falls back, as he always does.

  Sune Sloth: And he can't see it himself. He thinks he's Hunky Dory, and now he's evolved, and now he's gone to a new place. But he realises that he's not.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: As if they know that structure. Your foundation or locking is what you need to have that he clings to you, that he has been identified with over evolution. They just get shaken a little bit by psychedelics, shells, mushrooms and so like if he lives a little bit, so he might practice getting shaken a little bit. But if that shake doesn't get into day-to-day consciousness and into the behaviour and into how he lives with his woman and his children or other people, depending on what he chooses. Then there will be nothing but highlights and experiences. The same goes for women who go on retreats and drink cocoa and stuff like that. It's just not safe. But if it doesn't result in a change in them. In their daily life, then it can be a nice holiday, although not really. But it's more if you believe or have produced a fantasy and longing that if I go on these retreats and do these things, my patterns will change in my breathing. Say. And sometimes it can, but very often it doesn't.

  Sune Sloth: Some of the things I did didn't work at all, but I thought it did. It was shamanic ceremonies. Blow a pen and go through my whole life story and write it down. And then you'd put it on a fire and it would immediately feel like it works. It doesn't. You can get some redemption from it, but again, you have to be aware of that. The problem is that part of the man's system and part of his survival system is to be optimistic and believe in himself, even if what he says and does is absolutely positive. It's a bit harsh, but there you go. Everyone says their own experience. I mean, we're crazy good at bullshit. And even though what we say is wise. But the missing piece is typically that he has no sense of how others he cares about feel around him. Whether it's his children or his woman or his friends. And that one. Maybe it can. The starting point that we might advocate that it actually is. Instead of you experiencing that you can meditate and sit and go through Wilber phases and experience Vernes. It doesn't matter if you can't figure out how to be with a woman, you can't figure out and be present without locking and she doesn't feel seen and met and that, then you haven't achieved much in my view other than classic Gnostic and mystical ways. And you're allowed to do that. But, but, but, but, it has. We've nailed it, and there is. You could have gone to Thailand and become a Buddhist or something.

  Sune Sloth: I've been down and tried that myself at the Temple briefly and I've been there a few months and tried to follow that Tibetan Buddhism, and I can also see if Okay, at that point, when you do it over enough, then get down there the state of the cart and all that. But it's like pulling a rubber band that never gets tired. So you can fight constantly. You can get up and get a few insects that are typically spring greasy through. Through the system you're in. And then we're back in the system. But they love systems. They love the predictability and self-importance of it. When we find some system and we can then say to others, you have to take this step and you have to take step one, two, three and four. So that's how it is, so it's part of the man system and the men I help it give me a plan. That's fine, that's fine. If it's the premise of the system, so it's okay, then I write it down. Then I do three things Four things now for next time and then and then it's something like that. Where does that help me go and then down? And that's also why when you as a woman meet a man and his man opens it up, he lets the system know that you're uncomfortable, so you have to do such and such, because I would have done that. What he does is just move away from the condition temporarily and then think that he has solved it.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: That, can't stand the condition.

  Sune Sloth: Yes. His system can't stand the intensity.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Is it only the sexual intensity that he can endure, and therefore he seeks it? He can do that until he can't. Then he comes, and then he can't do it at all.

  Sune Sloth: That's the problem in part of tantra, and that's with withheld coming, because if your energy system is shut down. And you have nowhere to put your sexual energy or the energy that's down there. Then it pushes in and then you stay. That's why some people say about orgasms at some point. You get a cane line, but you. If you get a kundalini through a system that's closed, you can become fucking wa.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Believe me right away or become unbearably addictive. It can go completely wrong.

  Sune Sloth: You lose your grounding completely. And that's where we men, because that's the way we're wired, have basically gone for hard methods that break through the ground.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: To be able to feel something.

  Sune Sloth: And really, when I'm a blockage, he doesn't want me to just push through. But let's dive into some of the variants that emerged in the process. Some of them we've also seen in others. Would you see the energy system looking different from man to woman in general, or is it really the same?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: When I work, I go as high up as I possibly can. Basically, to be fully immersed in the technique, because then it has the greatest effect. And when you go that high, everything that Brian describes, which you can also see, where you make it fluid, so structured and see the chakra in such a way that it looks like this. As long as you stop, there's no colour. Very rarely. So it comes. It actually comes. It actually kind of depends on what dimension you're looking at energy from. So I would say that when I look at a man's and a woman's system, I look. I'm not looking at their whole system. I'm going for the friction, so if I go out of your lockdown where are your faults, and where are they at whether it's taking your thoughts or that? Your sincerity or your sadness or whatever it is, if and when they go into it, because it's not something I just do to them. It's always a co-creation, but the one I work with, when they kind of go into it, and I give them one that goes into it. Surrender to that friction and that grief, that pain or whatever it is that's behind it.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: They came to me, and then I can see it emerge. And when I see friction emerge in an energy system, whatever it is, whether it's a wounded feeling or a trauma or whatever. Then it's layer upon layer, it's almost like energy fog you could say, layer upon layer, and then it will start by having to start with what was like a fog. When things flow, when the energy system flows. The part of the energy system I work in, flowing, it's like a white golden light that flows without obstruction. And there's none of us. There are very few people who are really both stirring around, so we just have one if it's been a bomb for the rest of evolution, so we're kind of scarred. Then there might be something in punching that needs to die and stuff like that. If it's trave material, then there may be frequencies. It could also be frequencies that are so opposite frequencies that when bumps bump into each other, they need to be corrected. It can also be a split. It can feel very uncomfortable. There are various things that can explain it, but.

  Sune Sloth: That split.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: A split is when the energy seems to split in two. A duality in you, and it's as if. They, those two bubbles, if you like. Consciousness is side by side, but in separate fires, and it typically feels like a split when you're a whole sweat. But I love him, but I can't live with him. Such a black and white you. You're trapped in a loop hole where you're not any synergy. It's just like fuck you. You feel torn in half, so there can be a lot of friction in the split. And it's not like I go in and fix it, but I actually go in and get the energy to go in and the energy to open up to each other. I help the energy to harmonise and when it harmonises, it will. If you've been on average from I can't, I can't. I know that I will die. I also want to live what you're split into when you feel it from the inside looking out. But when the person feels it from the inside, when it harmonises, then you will land in one. Yes, that's right. It's a special condition that my father has to die and you have to die and I have to die for my children at some point. But it's like when the energy harmonises and there's a peace. But it's a synergy effect with what you were just about to split you completely to atoms.

  Sune Sloth: And we've experienced things like that. I've also had some experiences with putting it together, but I've experienced it from the inside. So you can go from 20 years in your life and have had one of those in between two conditions, and then it can resolve in 5 minutes, and you may have done a lot of therapy around this and you have mapped it out. You know the state and you know how to know the positions to death. It doesn't change anything, and really it's just because your energy system is split up somewhere. And then when you go in and collect it. There you have to say. If you don't work with and have the intention to. And it's really difficult, because what comes instead of that. We can't do it enough. This is not just a mental description. It's an experience of a different way of approaching things and being at peace with what is. And that brings us to the issue of men's willingness to work on themselves. And that's something we've talked a lot about. What's the point of the slightly more superficial interpretations that I've posted on? So he had to prioritise that over his computer game and his, his sport and his everything. Yes. Because it's so much energy to take on. To say yes to allowing that change and breaking through in small steps that you can manage. Implementing it in your daily life, in the sense that you realise that you can live from here. There are some places you need to clean up. There are some relationships, there are some places you need to speed up and something you need to solve that has disturbed your peace of mind because you haven't done anything about it. And then take a step back. And then you realise that you can be too. Simply take it upon yourself that a change is happening and be with it. What does it require of a man?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: It takes Fatima courage. Willpower, dedication, because it's easy to get.

  Sune Sloth: People out of bed.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Because he would arise crazy situations with you and where you've felt psychotic and where you called to work. And you literally said. And that's actually something that's interesting to talk to men who work with people. When you start to open up, you can have an enormous amount of trust in what you feel, it's important that a psychologist or psychiatrist interpret as another metaphorical you experienced at some point that your consciousness join two. You felt as if my whole reality splits in two and then out at work is just what the hell do I do? And when I looked at it energetically, I could see that it was splitting in two. I could see that every time I went to work like that and my workers held it together. Then you felt normal. I let go.

  Sune Sloth: Yes.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Then you felt psychotic. And that was also to say what it takes. We go in and work with these layers now, and then there will be some layers where you have. You don't have a foundation yet. So I actually have to get sick, I actually have to. And luckily I could do that. Even though my pulse was telling it what to do, which was very fortunately how it did it on its own. I actually started sewing them together, and when we get down to the end and I let go with my hands in the energy and I'm now perfectly fine. It's a one to one response. That was the moment I held the energy together. Then I was fine for a moment. Let go. Then you were back until I got it sewn up. So it takes some damn courage to remember that.

  Sune Sloth: Split was about. Or that split? I can actually. I'm joking, because a lot of the things that feel very dramatic in the situations that aren't dramatic anymore, and they don't show up again either. That's also just to say to those of you listening in. It's not two steps forward and one step back. It's not like that. It can be a theme that runs again and again.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Where there are many is my price, but there are many angles to it, so it can be.

  Sune Sloth: But now I'm also someone who's got many variations, so you've certainly taken that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: I've never met a mentor.

  Sune Sloth: And that's not to say that I haven't, but it may well be the simpler journey for others, because I've had to figure out which variations of places you can throw yourself into and disappear into and identify with and think you are. Or not, because it's also about distancing yourself from things in the world around you, so that you can realise yourself as you create yourself, create yourself, and that can also be the reason why things split up.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Absolutely.

  Sune Sloth: But that landed, and then it was Hunky Dory, and then it was a good working day. It's something that should happen once, twice or something. It hasn't happened.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Lacking fierce character, it hasn't always happened. But you've often been stuck with that slip? I had just landed on a kind of foundation and think it like this Things now work for letting go again. Are you still young? But it's as if it was. It's been equally uncomfortable every time. As if it was easier for you because you were the other thing the other times. I don't know what it is. I don't know what's new, but I've experienced and stood here before and something new has landed. So even though you've gained more confidence in the process time and time again. So yes, courage, I would say. And it's actually also about we, when we say And then I will also do it myself when I have people in couples counselling or at work, because it's not a pip in the classic sense. The fact that it has to be the first priority, and here he will actually have to have, I think already many. But the deer, because they actually have to dive deep into all the reasons why he is trying to escape the family. Not because he should be slaughtered for it, or because there's something wrong with him. Or because there are many aspects of the relationship that hurt him. He will actually have to scrutinise them one by one and figure out why does it hurt? Why am I even trying this? Why am I sleeping in here? It may be that there are some boundaries to set with your woman. There may be all kinds of things, but you actually have to take them one by one. And there's a reason why he struggles with these relational ones, because it can be overwhelming, because it's typically overwhelming for him, so therefore it takes a lot of courage to say one thing to say Yes, I want this. I would like to. A deeper connection. I don't know if he'll say it. I actually don't know how it's expressed.

  Sune Sloth: Isn't that an expression you use?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: No, exactly what do they mean? Does it start with more of a frustration? Some of them will start with a portion of intimacy at least.

  Sune Sloth: It can start with a feeling. It can also correspond to some of the men we talk to, but the feeling of not really feeling appreciated. If you're a little more flamboyant, you could have the cheek to say you don't feel loved. Now I'm walking here and doing all this. I fulfil my role and she's not interested in me anyway. And that translates into a feeling of being low in the hierarchy yourself. She is more interesting to her. The way it comes out is me, and she doesn't want to have sex with me either. And when she does, you can tell she doesn't really realise it, and then it's weird and stuff like that. When we talk to men. And what he feels there may actually also be an indication that he has ended up in a completely traditional, you could say exploitative, exploitative relationship. Where he has been a breeder, where he has been selected for his potential as a father and as a provider. And it's possible that she hasn't chosen him out of a deeper love, but he will talk more about not feeling appreciated, and he will talk about how he has tried everything. Either do what she says and try to accommodate, but then she gets annoyed about that too. And it's never good enough or things like that. Or he tries to be masculine and set boundaries, and then she thinks it's too much, so she doesn't bother. It's pure.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: A pure mess, I can see that.

  Sune Sloth: And now I've tried all these things, and there are some who stand in the place where they say Maybe it is. I wonder if anyone can appreciate me? It could also be that he doesn't feel appreciated as a father because there's an implicit assumption that women understand children better and stuff like that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And she knows I don't trust him, so she. And sometimes she doesn't trust him because he doesn't take responsibility. And that's how it should happen too.

  Sune Sloth: Now they're talking about it, and it can easily be behind everything. This is the reality.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: But nevertheless, no matter what, there is a feeling of not feeling valued, not being appreciated for what he brings to the table.

  Sune Sloth: And the way he can see it is that she doesn't want to have sex with him. And depending on how much testosterone and how horny he is, he spreads it to others. So he's very H9 and has very high testosterone, so what he. Then he will think about some other and close little things, and that just shuts him down even more. Or more to her. The fantasy of her, which also creates some pretty nasty problems. Because he's trying to squeeze himself into her field while she doesn't want him. And if she's not sensitive, she doesn't want him. And very few people know what that really feels like. So it can be a starting point about the man, he feels like the one who feels like the underdog or something. Outperformed in that she has become too masculine. For example, if you look at it in the way that she has become too controlling. And when he tries to take control, she is. You can't do that anyway. Or, you know, I'll take over here and that's fine and just organise this, then I'll take over. You know. So he wanders around like that. There are many variants we've met, but as a shadow of himself and maybe at work? Does he feel recognised or something? Even though you basically have a lot to offer. And you can also see this in the military, that you have a role and a function, that you are like a chef. Knowing that you're a cog in the machine. A lot of men like that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And feel like they have a place.

  Sune Sloth: You feel like you have a place and that. If you don't have a place somewhere in the machine, you can almost become depressed and be completely, completely dejected.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: When you get on the bench.

  Sune Sloth: So his identification with the role he plays in the workplace, but also the role he plays in a function. So he can basically relate to the fact that if he's made a log cabin in or and you know, we live up in the snow in the US and out and about and settlers relate to what he accomplishes. And then there's that, but on the other hand, he is. And as a woman, we traditionally look for someone who is able to accomplish something, who has the potential for it.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: But where he can't be present. Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes.

  Sune Sloth: But if the man doesn't start this journey, you get you good for the heart that says. I. Season 3 Media.

  Speaker3: And.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, he's mad at Jennifer. Speaker3: Yes.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: He grunts, he was.

  Sune Sloth: Grunts for four months in a row. Because there's something emotional he doesn't really know what to do with.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Because he feels let down by her.

  Sune Sloth: Our boy thought it was hilarious that he couldn't figure it out. He has a bit of a problem with emotions, mum. He has a bit of a hard time expressing his feelings. With the hardening, so there's a very interesting character in the Witcher, because that hardening is. I know it's fantasy and stuff, but what rings true is that he is extremely hardened by the hard ship. And through being tested over and over again to see if he can perform.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: I think a lot of men have the feeling that they go around licking monstrosities all the time.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, and underneath it, and that's where it lies. Is it life or death? Is it life or death? And there you have your nervous system at work, so it's a kind of exit, but you like it. The fact that they paint it at work. But it's really a sublimation. So it's really that they're out fighting. And M identifies himself, sees himself as someone who can accomplish. Then there's a particular variant that I find interesting is that there are very few high performing men like us who are attractive enough for women to throw themselves at them. Is there any interesting data when you look at Swipp? In one centre and various others? Well, it will probably surprise the women who are listening that 80% of women respond positively to up to 3% of men. Where are the men's Swipp and positive to 50% of women? That is, there is a top 10 group of men who are some jovial, handsome or otherwise attractive because they have some other characteristics that very few have. And very few are on offer. And there are many, many women who want something with them and what they want. It's not just a quickie, because they want that too, but they may want what they really want to trap him in because he has the big package.

  Sune Sloth: The impossible package. Which is so illusory and hard to get hold of. So women are more dubious when choosing a partner. And relatively few men have experienced success with women. And that's one to three per cent or something. The rest find that women. Ignore them. I've tried to be in both categories and I've both tried and been in the apparently pretty good category, because I experienced that on my teeth in the shower before I met you. But I've also tried the other category, so I've tried the thing about women not bothering to look when you're interested, and then they look at you kind of haughtily. And you can almost build up this frustration that you're trying and then they look through you. So I've felt the difference of being an attractive man in a crowd that many women find attractive. It's not something I really care about today. But at the time that was part of my study, I think basically. A What is it like to have sand.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Between the two.

  Speaker3: Places?

  Sune Sloth: Yeah, I've tried being like well overweight and really in a bad place and then trying to be the other place where I have the house. And I have all that stuff. And you know it looks good on paper and you manage to be a bit witty and find emotional depth without being too much and blablabla.

  Speaker3: And there you go.

  Sune Sloth: Really feel the pain in the system. An immune system of being chosen or not chosen. And we see many men who never get off the ramp at all and put themselves in the position of being chosen or not chosen. They go into a late sleep where they never really put themselves into play. And that's because it makes it one of the closures that today doesn't have. It's not my system anymore. It's transformed into something else. But it was such that there was a tremendous pain associated with being rejected and almost an aggression.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And probably also an arse full of dopamine. But then everything becomes dopamine.

  Sune Sloth: The system seems to have one. Great reward in trying to make it succeed. Yes, I think there's also something cultural there, because if you're more macho and run around all the time trying, then it's as if you've somehow identified with the fact that you're hot as hell, even if you're not. The studies we've seen from David Budtz, among others, and some of these, show that men have. If you put men in charge of correcting themselves, they overestimate themselves. Pretty much consistently. So is it a woman who is objectified and corrected by others? Holland Himself on attraction on a number of parameters, he thinks he is, he can easily get that. But that's because the man in his instinct goes after his. If he has to find partners, he goes for the hottest, nicest, sweetest. Who isn't too bitchy. And if she won't do it, he goes for the next in line. Say it! I mean, it's completely headless. So clearly relationships don't work when you choose your partner.

  Speaker3: That.

  Sune Sloth: She has the cutest smile and she has the cutest bum. And you know, things like that. And then he tries to go from the top like the top of the cake. And when he gets a no, he goes down unless he's had his head in candy, dares to get out of the guard and.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Then he ends up in mum's basement.

  Sune Sloth: Here he said in mum's basement or somehow enormously afraid of being lonely. And then he fucks the woman who, when he lacks courage, is still there in the network or whatever. And for some males, there are many who have ended up there, and she may have chosen him because he's very nice and he could be a very good father to the children and it was like there was an egg timer and then at some point she strikes. We've seen so many examples of women who have just settled for men and started the family project even though she's tired of him before they get started. I mean.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: If you want to have children when the clock is ticking, and then we'll take him there.

  Sune Sloth: And I just have to say to you men, there are a number of you who have been chosen in this way. As 1111111111 partners, actually. Yes, it's quite painful to realise. But there is a hierarchy that as a man you will experience, and that is that the children come first. Then comes. Some family members, maybe the dog, girlfriends, boyfriends, girlfriends, the house maybe if there are some things, and then you might come down that pile. And you might wonder that one of the places where you wake up, you wonder about the arm. Okay, couldn't she? Why doesn't she prioritise that we have enough together, but basically she doesn't want to. Basically, you're not interesting enough. You're an extra in it, you may be annoyed that you spend a lot of time in the toilet and need to go, but at the same time you may not feel welcome. And that's because it could be a sign that you're starting to open your heart. You can feel that you don't actually feel loved, and as a man, that can also make you feel very desperate. And it doesn't help matters if you try to articulate it and think she should go to therapy because she doesn't want to have sex. That's not the way, but it's actually recognising that you as a man have, that you have value, that you are, that you are a human being who is loved, and it's a woman, feminine and in her being, that you deserve, is someone who actually starts and who actually appreciates you because you bring it. You are the one who is underneath and who sees you for not only your potential for and you know rise, salary or build terrace or something stupid, but sees for your potential to allow yourself to step more soul through. Step through more.

  Speaker3: And.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, you can find yourself in a situation where you start taking that journey yourself, and then you realise. I mean, she knows how to talk about this kind of thing, because women do, but in practice, in practice there isn't. There's no resonance on prioritising it. It's something we men understand when you prioritise things. So, I think we're going to finish episode 27, part 1 now. Then there's a little break and then we'll do part two.

  Sune Sloth: Welcome to episode 27, part two of man closures.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, but what we just briefly touched on in the first episode. At the end is this. That this is something I often hear from women. They are frustrated with their men. That they don't think men prioritise family life and relationships. And are not willing to go to couples counselling. But it can also be found the other way round. It can also arise for men when they start to reach and if they start to open up. By feeling this feeling of being put down. That she's really good at talking as if she wants to, and she wants to and everything, but she doesn't actually prioritise it. So she can be really good at talking as if. It could also be that she believes it herself.

  Sune Sloth: But not actually interested in seeing him. No, she's more interested. I got him because he's annoying.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And then they have to continue with the framework they have for it. She may well end up being that with the family. It's about what kind of utility room I have. It's about how many children there are. It's about that. And not so much about how we feel together. Of course, many women are concerned about how we feel about each other, but this one can come too.

  Sune Sloth: On the other hand, if there are a lot of arguments, you want to resolve them so you don't have them. So it's not so much a big deal because it disturbs you, and he calls every bother about sex and gossip. It's a difference between men and women that seems to be pronounced. And it doesn't apply to everyone, but it certainly applies to the majority with the difference between women being able to shut down the house for periods and be uninterested in sex.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, it's not a pressing issue.

  Sune Sloth: At least for some. I know there are some who don't, but there are many who do. That it's not a thing for a period of time, and then they meet a wonderful man. Then suddenly it's there again. A lot of men don't feel that way. It's so emotional. It can feel like it's something that's pressing and needs to be dealt with. And that drives him to seek out women or his wife. And when she's dismissive and not interested, he doesn't know what to do about it. And he feels that he feels that kind of declaration of love that is physical touch when he wants to fuck her. I mean. And she doesn't want to take that. So that place is the place where men wake up. They want to have more sex. But I'm not really myself.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: In that sentence.

  Sune Sloth: It could be anything, it's not necessarily sex, but that's more what it means. The symbolism of it. The feeling of being rejected. And it's a bit like that. When we met, she had made something of herself, and she wanted to have sex all the time, and it's like a false advert you've fallen for. And I know it's not because there are all sorts of kids stepping in and everything, but it feels a bit like the interest biology has put in as an infatuation moment and then she's shut down. When that infatuation shuts down and she goes to work, the interest in him biologically and so on disappears, and she wants to have another child. Is there a mechanical desire for sex happening? Which basically, if you ask her, and she knows what that comes from. And then I know there's everything in between. Do some people have sex more than others? And all that caricatured stuff. So there are definitely women who want to have sex, and who and where they have sex, there are. But, but, but, but, but, it's more. Now we're talking about where it's difficult, and that's where the man might meet, might start his journey.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, what he can bump into there. We often see that it starts with feeling unappreciated and bored with not much intimacy often. So it's actually a bit.

  Sune Sloth: Your poles are nagging at him and he's doing his best and he doesn't feel that she appreciates what he brings to the table, no matter how hard he tries. So it's a bit like that. What do you want from me? I've done everything you've asked me to do and you're still angry and don't want to have sex with me. That's a good place to start. What lies underneath is dad, and it's very difficult for him to realise he's getting a little further. It's actually that he doesn't feel loved. He just doesn't really know what it means to feel loved. So that's it. But he understands that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: As a young woman standing here with a man, and she actually wants him. She wants to go deeper with him, and she doesn't just say it. How can she best support him? What's the best way?

  Sune Sloth: I try to think about my three days before that I was. I mean, you didn't realise you had abilities when we met, and I said when I got in that you could help me. And then you realised that you were getting more and more things in, how to do things. So there's something about What do you do if you haven't learnt those skills yet? Not everyone has the skills to such a detailed degree, where you also just have to say. There are some who are not experts in their field. That's how it is, and they are. To an extreme degree, so that's why we're in a bit of a unique situation in terms of. Both of us have had a deep impulse from a cellular level to follow a path that is also impersonal in the sense that we have come here. And that's why it's a bit of a. We shouldn't project our own path into what others are doing here at all.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: But let's assume a scenario where he starts working on his closure and goes into deeper layers. He gets help from someone. Whoever he is. He comes.

  Sune Sloth: With us. No-one is saying that as long as we do it, someone who can do what we can do and what you can do to a certain extent may come, but we just haven't met them yet. But would you say they will come to us?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And she she.

  Sune Sloth: Must support him. Mette Miriam Sloth: What? Mette Miriam Sloth: Will you? There will be a fear in her when he goes down into his collapse. Into his darkness, into that which shuts him down, because he can't be on Twitter. Yes, him.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Can't be there for the children and can't be.

  Sune Sloth: There for the children, that he collapses, and he gets depression or anxiety. And basically that he becomes dysfunctional. Should I then take care of him and the children?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes.

  Sune Sloth: And that would be incredibly unsexy for her at first, because it goes against her instincts, which is to be a big, strong alpha male who can lift everything and not break down. So how do you stand in? Okay, let's look at one part of it, the other part of it. If you as a man stand in and shut down and break down. Then there's being loved into it. It can do a lot.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: It can do a lot.

  Sune Sloth: And they understand how to be in the painful. It only becomes painful when you really allow yourself to open up. Until then, you don't even really have contact with them, but you start to open up. Then you find it hard to reach out and ask to be held. But that might be exactly what you need. But if she's fighting it and gets weird and stiff. And can't cope with what's coming up. That she can't be with him, that it all looks dark or it's all hopeless, and my role at work is I don't know what's going down, so she can't be in it, so she can't, so she can't be there for him.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And it's not that she should do anything about it, she just shouldn't be free of it.

  Sune Sloth: Her main task was to work with everything that becomes free, drawn by herself when she encounters it. Should I have him? Should I not have him? And what if? And I don't know what that woman is thinking there and then.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: She doesn't know herself either, because she's in it. She may think she's really good at accommodating him when he's down, but she may well be surprised that she wants to hit him and she doesn't want to.

  Sune Sloth: So it teaches a woman that she instinctively wants him to stand strong and be able to lug monstrous. And she craves even more openness than a possible changeability with her, and he can be present with her while she's in her fluctuations, and things change, while she can't at all. She thinks it's unsexy as hell when he allows her to come up.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: In her case, if not all women do it. But it's not.

  Sune Sloth: Everyone, there are some.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Men. But even if you as a woman feel it, when you can be with that state in yourself and you can take care of it. That's actually the most important thing. The most important thing is actually to be able to be with him. The best you can be with him is to be with it without having to fix it and then take care of your own tricker points on it.

  Sune Sloth: So that's the work you can do yourself. It's actually watching. What happens when he goes in? Can you be in it?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, you can be afraid that he'll change so much. You're afraid of the relationship, you're hugely afraid of many things along the way, and it is.

  Sune Sloth: Actually, it's really important to work through it to be able to stand in. Well, it's not a foregone conclusion. You can't have the relationship continue as a parameter.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Because you don't know if.

  Sune Sloth: I don't know if he'll end up going to the dogs or if he'll get up. You don't know about the ash.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Or he suddenly realises that he wants to do something else in life.

  Sune Sloth: Or you know that he finds it annoying to be with you, so you're useless. That's where he can tap into a deeper level of his. Who he is, if you like, and in that, some choices can arise, such as if it has to be constantly moulded in such a way that we must at least be together and we are right for each other, and that's the construction that's built up. Then there's no room for the relationship to change the individual's perspective and thus for the relationship to come together anew. And that's where the magic happens. Because if you can leave it at that and he then opens up and unfolds and suddenly starts being in the world in a different way that you find extremely exciting, then a whole lot of exciting exchanges can arise around it that also end up in bed.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: In other words, sexuality never stops. Because the relationship that lies between them, they don't stop themselves.

  Sune Sloth: So there you have the solution to this. But you get to some therapeutic point in sex that stalls, and then others have to be handcuffed or Now you have to try to have sex on a certain date, and now you're not going to have sex or some other nonsense. Just drop it. Let go of all the rubbish it causes, let it transform inside you. Your courage to stand in as a woman, that he. That he is potentially transforming or not. And you know that you actually have no idea which man will come out of it today. And that he allows you, that he invites you in, and he dares, is where it's good to have people like us who know a bit. So that if you get to a place where you're stuck, there's someone there to help you.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: It's very nice, and you can call a friend, right?

  Sune Sloth: And that's too many people, but I think I'll take it too casually myself, because that's how I am. That's the starting point. But you just need to know that you're experiencing. You experience it all from the inside, unless you meditate and come up and live and be an observing state. You just can't work with the energy system from there until you get very far.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: No, because you have to go through the difficult, you have to go through the. You have to contact the places that have been disconnected. To avoid feeling pain, you have to dare and start feeling the pain, go through it and not just bypass it. It by pure meditation. You can't do that.

  Sune Sloth: So she can be present and actually deal with what's inside herself and come up when she's with the man who then opens up her vulnerability or pain or something.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Be with him where have your field unconditional love and as you want, can't always keep it because you get knitted by things and that's fine. But then to you it.

  Sune Sloth: Is also something about her having to be in God, that he reflects in a different way, so into solutions, and now I've got there, and then he can have some little periods where he's a bit like that. Really. He has developed and she can just see that not much is happening, but it will be the more you at the beginning of the journey, the more you think you've done. Amazing progress and she can see nothing or very little happened, but it changes over time with that because he's so amazed that he's survived a change and is still here. He has kept going.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Stopped before a quantum leap. That was sweet.

  Sune Sloth: I would like to encourage men to look at not what men say, not what system they have, not whether others think it's cool. Look at that man's life. Have they fucked it in their own life? It's incredibly strange to me that people don't look that way. Each has the least. So how does that person relate to others? Maybe that's what I need to keep an eye on. How does that person function in life? If I do the things they recommend, then you can get there, and then you can say Well, take a sober look at a life you're interested in. I almost have to say it, but we've had this discussion and talk about. A certain someone. A person with a tantra massage background, which we don't mention without saying anything about him as such, because there's quite a lot going on around it.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: It's not the country, and that's it. It's not so much about the person either.

  Sune Sloth: Well, no, but they've sold themselves as a couples therapist and know about tantra and energy between couples.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Polarity and.

  Sune Sloth: Polarity. But when you look and I have seen so many people in the world. When you look at their private lives, they mess around, and they haven't done a damn thing, and they say themselves that they don't have a handle on relationships. So how can you. How can you? It's a bit like saying, but I'd like a structural engineer who has never been involved in building a house and who hasn't been successful at it. It makes absolutely no sense. And you just have to say that some of the people in the alternative community who get it. Are getting that recognition. They talk a lot but have very little and funny relationships and that's because I say I've nailed it. But look at that. Well, I actually think I've taken some streets on this account, but it's up to the person seeking help to find out if there's a man he kind of looks up to or something or thinks I'd like to be inspired by him. Has he lived a life where he's painted some of the things you haven't? In practice, someone else who also has such a polarity, something or other, who does workshops without naming names.

  Sune Sloth: This person has a reputation for having gashes all around and he's also not in control and has just written down six months ago. A big book with lots of things stolen from all sorts of people without a single reference. Then he comes up with it as if it's his own profound wisdom. I get really tired of that. Because firstly, it's a copycat, but I think what happens is that they become known among women who think it sounds really exciting. And no, here's a man working on himself and they become a whole. The Unicorn Markets of the world become completely naive, so they just say something a little bit interesting and talk a little bit about the feelings of open women in alternative environments. No, he's a bit sensitive and he talks about some things, and I have to set higher standards. Women It's simply too cheap. It's cheap that men exploit it.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, they do.

  Sune Sloth: To get the meat off and whether it's conscious or unconscious. It can also be like a cougar, because you just walk a little bit and wiggle your ears. And then there's a large group of women who are extremely surprised that you've given even the slightest thought to anything. That's not good enough. I simply have to turn it up a notch. A friend in the alternative environment, So there are plenty of men who work on themselves and then see, how many of them do you want to date? None of them you can just see. But you can go to a men's group with them. No, you don't want to bother. Well, looking for a boyfriend is not one of the ones she finds interesting enough and has come a long way to want to date them in her maturity, so it doesn't last. But there is such a thirst from women for men to start doing something, and I can understand that. And I think that's what it's all about. And then you get so violently excited. A little too much and very little for breadcrumbs and very deep like a puddle. Talk about polarity and such nonsense, where you can see that you're able to mesmerise a huge group of women who are amazed by that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Without you actually saying anything.

  Sune Sloth: And you haven't really said very much. And. huge illusion. That world.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Is very.

  Sune Sloth: And then there is of course. But there are many of those who come to you and to us who are not from the alternative world and the wonderful.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, no, a lot. And it's not for us. It doesn't matter if you define yourself as a spiritual atheist or Christian Jews. That's not what it is. There isn't anything. In that way.

  Sune Sloth: You don't get a belief system or no system shoved down your throat. You don't get a hierarchy we are better than you, or if you. If you lean into us, it's because you think we can help you with something. We can be in a way with something you might not have where you are. Confidence in us. You can see that there's something there.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Your felt or experienced sense that you. You feel yourself more than poor, and you don't need to know anything about either chakra system. And that's fine too. If you do, I would tell you not to. You don't have to be a certain way to work.

  Sune Sloth: With it that way. It's not necessarily that way. You've come here to do what we do. So what we do is really just an expression of a specialised way. Specialised way that has the positive side effect that someone can use it for something. So it's not like you have to be a healer or something. It can be them. Your purpose, your soul's purpose for being here is something else. Spread joy or spread kindness or yes.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Or go out and do something.

  Sune Sloth: In relationships that are not loving or go.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Go out and stand very strong in life and then stand there. And then you can feel when you feel you have a strength in you. You can feel it. And there's a lot of trauma for the family lineage, which is also difficult and we can help clean up or integrate when you can go out and do that in the world, whether you ever want to call it something spiritual or not, doesn't matter. It matters what we call it, what you experience when we work with you.

  Sune Sloth: Central to me has been time, and I don't know if it is, if it will be for others. But I think it can. You just have to find out who you're dealing with and find out. What the hell is the meaning of life understood in that way? What is the meaning of who I am? Do you find that some of the other clients ask some questions?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes. And or. As a director. There's something about those who felt worthy down here in the sheets feeling worthy of being here. Everyone can do that too dk woman us. But it's as if men have a special variant, so it's as if.

  Sune Sloth: Caution, because the answer could be that it was meaningless or yes.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: As if I don't dare go out there. I'd better stay busy over here, because if I hit that, everyone will get up again. We just have to say that every time we've worked on you, and you've been in some places of deep meaninglessness. There's everything. There's always filler or meaning or something on the other side.

  Sune Sloth: And that wasn't in the cards. But that's why it's great that someone else has taken a path, because then you can say okay, I don't actually end up in a dark place in the end. No, I have somewhere else.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And that wasn't a positive thing. It's probably going to land instead of that. We don't know about that.

  Sune Sloth: You can. Not at all. Positive thinking is deeply problematic, because then you're actually blocking the very thoughts that are rummaging around underneath and that you're trying to push away. So it doesn't work. You can actually say the tools you may need on your way. What could it be that might make it easier for him to go through it? Well, that is.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Well, it's quite nice that he has some counselling. It's quite nicely handmade and used quite nicely. He can go down cold baths and see just fine. He has worked with different methods for sperm motility and in terms of understanding himself and understanding his childhood and health. It's excellent, it softens, it softens and what it actually does. It trains his ability to reflect and to sense what he feels inside. Even if it doesn't feel anything anymore. He trains that muscle because it makes it easier to work with him and he comes much easier. So it's not to say that they can do anything, because if I start with someone who has almost never really related to himself and his own body, it's something like, even though I now have a little jaw that now has a little tension. I can go somewhere, but we can go deeper when they introspect. They have done that by coaching or whatever, and now I can feel what I can do. It's tingling here, which I can feel now getting sad in that place, if they're kind of in touch with their inner world. Much easier to help them.

  Sune Sloth: How do you feel about the word self-development?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Well, it's an illusion. I understand why it's there, and it's made fun of because it develops. I don't know if you develop yourself by digging yourself free. The problem is that it's a constant hunt for some brand to develop. So I'm probably more in favour of that instead of you.

  Sune Sloth: Becomes like that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: A bit annoying.

  Sune Sloth: I don't subscribe to it at all.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: No, not at all. I can understand why it's you, but that's not actually what it's about. It's actually about the fact that in your life, part of LED is changeability.

  Sune Sloth: And it must be possible with that changeability. Exactly, and I would say that. One of the things that has recently become more and more clear is that I don't know if women do that too. But it's that the consciousness spirit, which is the soul as part of the body. It can go into a role and kind of specialise in doing something with something in a very detailed form. It comes to a point where you discover God. It's really just a projection, a projection of consciousness into a role. You can begin to work on letting go of identification with it in all its forms. This requires you to have worked through the system really well. Then you can start to experience that you identify with being at work and performing as you did in the old days, in a way that people can recognise. And then you really can. When you let it go, it retreats into a being. Which can have a different expression. Which you still identify with when you're in it. When you are a certain way as a father, but towards your female cat, it is in reality. The most interesting thing is actually that if you're constantly playing roles and that. You won't experience it that way. It will be more true. This is who I am. That's how I function and I don't want to deal with that. And now she's a bitch again, and now we have to talk and feel. And by that, I want all that, I do.

  Sune Sloth: The clarifications into a fixed form that can be used or not used. You got to a point where you could feel that it's really just something that you. You don't identify with that form otherwise. But you do when you're in it. Typically, for the soul to reach through the material and do something that is more on a biological physical level. So it needs to be specialised in how do I do if I'm going to be a craftsman and build the country? Or what do I do at work if I'm going to accomplish something? And we can take everyone for that. It can be. How does it work in organisational psychology? How does leadership work, or how does a technology work, or how can we further develop it or use it for something specific? Something that I work with? Or how can you play an instrument and become really good at it? And so on and so forth. But it's an expression of soul of spirit. In that moment and what I'm talking about here is not some lofty philosophy. It's a real experience that you may have come to a place where it's like that. But where it doesn't feel like waking up because the language expresses itself. Again, where you're like if it was a needle, it was the tip of the head of the penis, where the consciousness is looking out, and then that idea creator or sleeve is something. In certain situations. And there you can discover that it might be scary that you're playing roles and you're not any of them, because what you saw.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: If hey, what are you then.

  Sune Sloth: If you're not playing dad or something? Who sits and drinks a beer and goes on a bike ride with a CEO or a cyclist. Now I'm networking because I'm networking among my fellow municipal directors and we're wearing suits and serious. And I have to make sure that SUP communicates that I also have good results with what I do, etc. At the same time, we expect each other a bit, and I have a network of such executive and cunning big men. You've identified yourself so much and you've done it so much that you think you're the one. And it started out to be. But when you, when you're in the system and there are full fluctuations, it's not for uni. Because if you're going to create something in a world like that, that's one of the ways to do it. So there's something wrong with that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: But you just step into the role when it needs to be played, then you step out of it and the breaker is in the background, eating up all your energy, because it takes a lot of energy to be locked into your identity.

  Sune Sloth: And you'll find that many of those roles have. When you start working with it, you've unconsciously played out a lot of things that have actually made you unfree to act in the role. It could be fear of losing a place in the hierarchy or not speaking up. Your partner is delivering something of poor quality and you're wrapping it up because you have to get on the bad side of people in the industry or something like that. Or whatever it might be. As I've personally experienced myself, and you can get to a point where you're like that. I'm not really afraid to stand by what I come here to do, so my ownership is that if you want to do this, I want to do it. We're going to make a partnership here. And then you will feel it. Then you might have an energy sensitivity where you don't just interpret their expression, but you can actually feel what their intention is behind it all, because you get energy, sense and feeling for what lies behind people. That is, what is their driving force and you can feel that radiance and can pick up on it and start to trust it because. Not because you just have to surrender, but because you have had so many experiences of when your sense is strong enough and hits the mark, and where you have to be careful, where you might get things in that you just get sorted through such systems are all possible.

  Sune Sloth: And we just basically can't have that. So we'd much rather rely on statistics and numbers, and you still don't need them. So you have to have copywriting evidence on things, and sometimes you want a probability calculation that says that. It's probably not going to happen, but you can get a do it anyway, and then it's not about being naive. And no, I lay down tarot cards and sit with a feather and do something with a drum and stuff like that. Then it's a matter of being open, because that can actually happen, and I plan for that possibility to be there too. Then you start to be able to use these skills in everyday life to do business and to find out who the right partners are. Do they want to go with that? And it's still a skilled world with lots of advice and people who have everything they need.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: That's how it is.

  Sune Sloth: But it was fun, because it was difficult. Is it so hard to get results when you. When you're in that morass, and you look at people and you think, holy shit, how easily they accomplish. Shit, organisations are so inefficient and rubbing up against each other and teams and people and positioning and all kinds of crap. And the funny thing is I've seen the same thing in private companies and large international collaborations, where I think, wow, this is as hopeless as my municipality. It was okay. It's the same mechanisms that are at work. It's the same human closures, the same game.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Fear and basically being shouted out. Am I good enough? Depending on when and how far you get down.

  Sune Sloth: But then you can also get to the point where you have to say some things straight out to some people that you've been holding back because you're afraid of what, will it damage your reputation or?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And if you get. It's actually a crucial step on the journey. Yes, this was for men and women, but it's when you start to have realisations. You actually start to trust your intuition about well, what we should call a sixth sense and to get too few. For things, a deep realisation and one. Do you just think you know what? Until your body puts it 7. You then doctor act on it because you dare not take the consequence. Then you stand again.

  Sune Sloth: So then you doctor your soul's purpose and you do it well.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, you can do that.

  Sune Sloth: Then you can go backwards here. And I will. I think an important point here is that the chakras are sensory organs, and they actually take energy from the environment. And if your chakras energy system is locked and blocked so that you feel your well filling, that's bullshit. Yes, it's your own bullshit.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And you can't. You don't have, you don't have. You basically don't have a compass, so you have to be cleaned up first.

  Sune Sloth: That's why many men become analytical and almost instrumental in the way they react. And then they go on a leadership course. That's what I think. Just like if they use some kind of system.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Is that a good thing, because it's so short until they can't use theirs.

  Sune Sloth: They can't use their bodies. The system is blocked, shut down so they are chakras if they are open. They can also pull a wrong way or somewhere that can be. They can be smashed in different ways, we've seen. That can be wise.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And there can be many things.

  Sune Sloth: And all sorts of things. But not just senses. Not just chakra, but also the energy it takes into the system and the environment. So it's almost like a listening device. So for hare you can get a good healing. Yes, but it could just as well be because you have a stomach ache and a lot of repressed anger.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Or do you help or have a good feeling about something that is basically not your own? That just steps in for some other people who are standing there.

  Sune Sloth: Integrity in your own energy field starts to become crucial because the shocking realisation is that if it's true that there is consciousness that can be exchanged and that you can sense, then everything you've believed and been told through Western philosophy, through almost all science. It's not really understood in the sense that there's something they've missed. The violent realisation is very much that people can go and skim over you, and it goes into your field and you. And that there can be beings roaming around that have no physical body that you can meet. It's a very scary time and place. Where you still have experienced some, but where people come in with nightmares, and suddenly they are visited at night by someone,’ says GEUS.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: They don't want that at all.

  Sune Sloth: That's just how I see it. I don't like it. Deeply, deeply. Do you really have a talent for perspective that is so strong that you have to deal with it in some strange way? Women don't seem to have it.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Some do.

  Sune Sloth: I can understand that. Mette Miriam Sloth: Are you ready? What the application is of you having had past lives? It means that it means that it means death.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: As you understand.

  Sune Sloth: It, says the bonds, or you know what the hell is. So what the hell is a being, a ghost that you meet. What the hell is it? Why are they there? If you're male and reflective, you can't leave it alone. That's why we spend so much time trying to find explanations for things, and women don't need that. She feels like she's got it and you just. Want to change everything.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: There were so many opinions about where this UFO stuff was coming from.

  Sune Sloth: And it's pretty big in some circles right now. And there's this great word that Rask's wife has come up with called ontological shock ontology, i.e. our perception of the world. And it's just that not all men are affected. Ontological shock. They just shut it out. I can see that at the lunch table, which is a bit of a tease. Have you seen that the US has now held a hearing about there possibly being 12 spaceships in session + pilots? It's just like that. It's just a hoax. It's because they don't want to think through what the consequences are and what the consequences are like. Louise Alessandro, who was supposed to be the former head of Aero, which was their UFO unit, which was secret, which has now been revealed that he no longer said. ‘It's a bit like those UFOs that you come home or you've been sleeping at night, and then there's someone you can see. There are muddy footprints in your home. There's dust everywhere and they're rolling around in the kitchen eating something. And you have no idea who it is. It's pretty unsafe. It means that the boundaries you think you've set are somewhere else. They could sort of come round at night if you want them to. It's to have. It's fun? Yes, so while we're at it, most men would rather go and look at some technology or solve a problem and probably.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Some very tight clothes out in the woods.

  Sune Sloth: And the men who have found out something interesting. Trying to rationally log in, but they refuse to accept the ontological shock. So. That's philosophy of life. Then I read up on the whole Western philosophy cover to cover with encyclopaedias. I read the whole thing and familiarised myself with a number of these philosophies and originally chose the authors. For example, there's fire and stuff like that. And that's when I realised that if Eastern philosophy was right, that you can say bioenergy and stuff like that, then they were all wrong. They've all lost points.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: But it's always the case that Western philosophy is a bit like that, that consciousness is a product of the brain and Eastern philosophy. No, the brain is a product of consciousness. It has been around.

  Sune Sloth: So. But I don't see men interested in what shall we say? For example, the paranormal or? UFOs, or if they don't have a curiosity. I don't.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Otherwise, they've had near-death experiences soon, and then they realise it. They've had something that has given them an ontological shock, because the curious person opens up. Or maybe they have innate things.

  Sune Sloth: I don't really know, I was like that myself. That's where it has nothing to do with anything. For twenty years or something.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Of what I met there. Don't you want to be a Saint Francis?

  Sune Sloth: I didn't give a shit. But then I had to deal with it. But the starting point was not a curiosity to understand it. It was actually me. That's what we talked about. This was that I didn't feel loved and appreciated for who I was. And I thought I need to sit down and make a list of all the female acquaintances I've had throughout my life. Okay, this, these are red flags, things like that. Bettina has Gary and you know constantly demanding that you can just exercise that muscle a little bit more because you're very pretty, but shit like that or that it's fine that you've done a terrace. But you also promised that there was a lack of appreciation, for example. So if we agree with the delusional view of something we've rarely touched on here in this podcast, but which is a phenomenon that is but can end up with women with such violent narcissistic traits. And easily. And if you're a man with a certain empathy, you can easily play the role of being the one who regulates the emotional and speaks into her in a way that. And you actually get to take the role that you've often mentioned. Women do where you take it upon yourself to take therapy, and every time something is difficult, you have to look at yourself and... Exactly. You can be completely mistreated in that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Whether it's the man or the woman who does it. It's extremely destructive.

  Sune Sloth: We've just often talked about it. I meet a man who is yes.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And that's because we've had the most data material from most of the women who came to me.

  Sune Sloth: But there are also a few of us who have tried something else, and one of the most difficult exercises is to be slaughtered and butchered. In the sense that no matter what perspective you come from, the psychological reality is questioned. It translates into. What is it that she can actually do to be there for him? And it's actually being able to stand in the fact that his psychological reality is the one he's in, right there. So if she starts trying to shut down or pull out of it or can't handle it or whatever. He needs to go through the process of finding his way forward. She can't give him that. And he can only start taking in and illuminating a light of love when he knows it himself, so she can illuminate him as much as she wants and he can. But if he doesn't agree to take it in himself and integrate it. In his own system, he won't make it a permanent change. Then it will be a temporary lighting, where someone else has a flashlight and you want to. So there are some warning signs, even if you're a woman actually really from the heart by your husband and now we're going into some of the negative scenarios? No, no. Then you may find that you really want to go down the road with him. And that's the thing. We often see women coming to you, and then he doesn't want to go down the road at all. And then they ask what can I do? And one of the things is to fill him with love and really give him something in himself if he doesn't want to.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: If you don't have enough love for both of you. No, no, you don't. It has to be one. It has to be a joyful exchange.

  Sune Sloth: How does it feel when it works? Then it is.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: So those notches in the flow state, so it flows. It's very organic and it's very easy to come back after disagreements if we just hit an edge, right? But anyway, it's the classic 80/20 that it's not consumed in a coach terminology, but a lot of relationships have 80% energy, conflict and 20% of what's good, and then it gets less and less turned round, so that it's less and less times that you bang your heads together, that you experience distance or coldness or hurt or pulled together. And when you finally get there, because sometimes you do, you come back. You have several ways back together. That's what it is when it works. If there was talk about it, it could be great. We loved each other a little more, then you live. It's living in love.

  Sune Sloth: And that brings me back to the fact that a big part of my motivation was actually that I could see in you how much it hurt you when I closed, and I didn't realise I was closing, but I could see it hurt you. And my love for you meant that I had to think that she can't do that. Well, there were also practicalities. I could see that you could live with that in the long run. So if I wanted an open woman who had a lovely open heart and who had love, I could ignore the fact that she was hurting her too. When it's the connection goes, they use those words. That love, that it stops, that it gets broken and gets chopped off. And that's what it's really about. And that's when it's not about self-development. Because it's about reaching beyond yourself. In fact, because there's another person who feels isolated and closed off on a mental level. And that feeling has also had a lot to do with the boys, the children, that I can see here locking off and becoming square. And my son, he or both of us. Now it's cardboard, but we basically treat them the same, so there's nothing wrong with that. But if I go in and get all stiff and square in a real man dad kind of old fashioned way, I can see them shut down and I can see them isolate themselves and they get angry or upset about something happening. So they also lose the human connection, and so I feel the pain in my own heart to see the other person shut down. And feel the potential, because it's actually not necessary. It's not necessary to lose the connection, but that's the starting point. So you don't really know what to do. So it's actually made me seek out all the situations where I shut down. And then try to work through it. For example, when you've had an orgasm and the system closes in on itself in total isolation. One of the most painful places we've worked.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Every now and then you can actually try to supplement the place we have tantra to come. I can understand why, because it's called the little death. There's some aeration, and you can actually see work there.

  Sune Sloth: But there are some locks, and some of them were something like this. That I've actually sacrificed a part of myself for something else. A lot of things about women and choosing them, and when you have sex with them, and when you let it go so far that there's a chance of reproduction, and that there's all sorts of things like that. The system that it's a kind of agreement. You also enter backwards into other lives and into the body and it's insanely big.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: It was a full package and I'm still unpacking it.

  Sune Sloth: I can't remember what to unpack on it, but it's one of the few things left. It was actually right after orgasm that it was as if the male body completely closes in on itself, as if it has given everything it could with that. You can see that too, but it's working hard, and then you're completely blown away. All that motivation, all that dopamine that comes from pushing through in that way, for hours on end. There's something wrong with it. There's an interesting closure, and I find it more and more and more interesting. That it's becoming more and more not a lock. Yes, it is. And it's not that you're demanding that I be present, because they've been there. You never demanded that I was there because I could see that what they did upset you. It hurt your heart. It cut your heart and I couldn't have that. Fucking key daughter. I could see that if I was going to do that with a woman, I had to paint it. Whether you stuck around or not, because otherwise I would have the problem next time, so I might as well redeem myself now. And then this thing about feeling appreciated and everything kind of fades away and becomes kind of a shadowy old way of looking at it. It kind of falls away.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: But that's where it started.

  Sune Sloth: It's more to say where can it start?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, and it's also, and I think it's an interesting point. Both with you could. You couldn't necessarily feel me to begin with. You couldn't feel it yourself when you closed, but you could feel it if you can see my pain over time. Then you actually started to feel when you closed and the children's pain, so over time you actually started to feel most of the times were closed, then it became fewer and fewer times. It was getting to me. Then you could feel it yourself. You had to say it like that, and I was going in the closed. It just takes my breath away, and you ask, ‘Can you help me? Then we'll look at it together or whatever it is. And then you actually reach a point in the journey where. That you could feel how painful it was. When I was hit by something and I shut down.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, I could suddenly feel it like. And then I started to get a sense of what it must be like to be a woman and seek connection. So it was broken.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Again and again and again.

  Sune Sloth: So that's how I feel today, and that's why I don't connect with everyone. Especially when I feel them. Family members who are conditioned in the sense that you have to behave this way, you have to do this. And if it's like this, or if we're talking about this, then I close the connection. And then the cutting experience is at the heart of something. That's where I actually choose to keep a nice arm's length. And then it's not abstract to talk about unconditional love, because unconditional love is basically just let go. You don't go in and lose the connection. I can connect with people who are there and be connected, but I don't go in and unfold and there is. The problem is that the spectrum of contact that's possible is so limited that it has to be kept within some. Rules. Some. There could be a huge playing field where all kinds of exchanges are possible and we could go. But you can only be in this corner and walk around within this little labyrinth here. As you know it is, you press there because the other one presses the other lock. When you move there, and women are a little different than men, where. But then if we're sitting with a colleague, who I'm old friends with, and then going into something that's difficult in him, and seeing men in all sorts of guises and doing something they don't want to relate to you about. It's fine, it's okay. Then some kind of rationalisation comes along and shuts it down, and then we're not going to talk about technology, or are we going to talk about shares? You know, something else that you can get externally.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: System, one.

  Sune Sloth: Or something external that can be solved or that you can relate to, that you can use for a task or something. Men do that a lot. And the question is that it's actually an indicator that he's willing to stand in and be with it.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: As a woman, you have to say it a little. It's kind of the same thing that men can smoke in, and she had a nice bum there. She had a sweet smile and a sly smile. But you know what he. Why are we having baby number 5 now? I've never wanted that. I wish we had time for us, but if she's always said I want to have five kids and he's just talked about it, we'll take it as we go. Not because she has a nice bum. He realised that he's been seduced by an expression, but he hasn't tuned it out. Do we know the same thing here? He's just gone along with it, and she can say the same thing. No, he can accomplish something and see he's a CEO, or he's one of those things, so he probably has a handle on it and high integrity. And so what if he's never going to be able to relate to himself intersubjectively? Then he will be extremely emotionally immature. He may well be a director who is completely hopeless in relational contact, and then he won't be the father to the children that you would like. The relational aspect doesn't see him, and he will become square, blunt and rough and edgy, and he doesn't want to be around you. And he won't if he doesn't. If he doesn't, if he can't relate. It happens in him and dare to let himself calm down and be with state, then you become emotionally blunted. It doesn't mature.

  Sune Sloth: But numbness also lies in the choice between being in what is uncomfortable. And typically, the man will withdraw if the choice that lies underneath is uncomfortable for his situation. Let's just say that men are very, very comfortable with that. An acquaintance like his ex-wife as a model. And like she's completely crazy about it. Not in the cool way. That she's over a narcissist. Really like that? Changing partners. Kids are exposed to them and they know they're going to be scolded and mocked and done all sorts of things to her. And then I ask him, what do you think of your choice? I thought she was hot. I thought it was a very good choice. It's one of the kids. They made me believe that she was using contraception, but then tricked him into reverse rape. You could say. And to this day she behaves horribly and he can't figure out how to take. He can't figure out how to enter into the masculine development that lies in standing and saying that we spend Christmas separately. So every Christmas, he puts up with her belittling the children and mocking them.

  Sune Sloth: And it's all about her. He can't, he can't. There's nothing wrong with this. It's very normal. That you take blows to your surroundings and don't take the consequences of what's right in front of you. And a lot of what's in front of you. And I think women would see that a lot. They're lying in plain sight. In reality, it's incredibly obvious. So a lot of times you actually take the obvious conclusion and say Okay, that's not good for the kids. It's not healthy for me either. I get broken down and sad. I spend two or three days,’ he says. So to recover every single time I make contact? Well, you just know. And let's see him start taking responsibility for the fact that he didn't have to be available to do crafts for her for 10 years straight and say you have to fix that yourself. It's also a special case, but still, there's something about not taking the consequences and feeling it. It's uncomfortable and says okay, if I have to take it seriously, what is my choice?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, this woman also in relation to social life. They can easily be with extended family members that they don't like to be with. But they don't speak up in the situation because they don't want to smell blood, and they're afraid it will all come crashing down. And now, like their own children's birthdays, they can't stand it. In fact, it's something they want to do because they're pressurised into a mould that they have to invite someone because you do. They get to live in a way where they take into account other people's prejudices or social norms or social needs that don't fit with their own.

  Sune Sloth: And you have to say that there will be. And that's why I brought it up. There comes a point where you. As a man, you realise that someone doesn't actually like me for who I am. But for my role. And if I break with that role in the slightest, there's trouble. And you can find yourself having to say okay by participating in it.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Exactly. And that's not to say it's a right or wrong answer for the individual person, just to say that these things. I would say there's a high probability that they will come up, because it's something all people face in one way or another.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, and if you don't have the dimension to make the choices that you can feel deep down. Then when you get it, it's the right thing to do. Then you don't create that space in your life for other thinking to happen and you let the many relationships or tasks you've said yes to that you don't really have your heart in. They consume 90 per cent of your time. What is a family that you don't feel loved and valued in? Where you have a perhaps neglected role to some extent and you can see. Basically, I'm here. No matter what we say, if we love each other, I'm basically here. As long as she can use me, and as soon as I collapse and I'm vulnerable, then I'm useless. Or an ex-wife who has basically allowed herself to be used, and you've allowed her to take advantage of the kids, and you've basically spared the kids the truth that that's just how mum is. You shouldn't take that personally. It's what she does. It's making the choices and taking the consequences. It's not necessarily a big conflict. It's really just being in, and there they come, you could say. It's a form of masculinity to be able to say I don't want to be part of that kind of behaviour. It's not okay. No matter how much she freaks out and threatens and makes up things and lies. And how much she wears you down in terms of it not really getting to a point where you doubt your reality, because you know she's trying to distort it to get you to an unsafe place where you're going to have fungus. And of course that's an extreme situation and it doesn't happen here. The normal or the more rare, I think there are some men with a lot of empathy who end up in these. That's for sure.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: I think you'll see them.

  Sune Sloth: Are there some difficult choices to make, because they know that this ex-wife will try everything possible to obstruct the relationship with your children. If you start to stand up for yourself or stand up for the fact that you do things your way and inform her of everything you do, not allow yourself to be questioned. And then you can stand there and say, well, I have to go with my heart, regardless of the fact that there's a risk of losing the relationship with my children. Just like if I lose the relationship in. And so I had to work through that fear. But if you let that fear control you. I also have another friend who has. The ex-wife wasn't really that bad, but he kept playing the role of being the co-operative one. Never speaking up, and she rolled over him in that sense. But he also let it happen again and again and again because he had this fantasy that at some point the kids would realise he was good and he would parry the contact. It's risky business to stand up for yourself in relationships, and when you start to experience that connection, you realise how much it hurts, the hurt is created and the disappointment. The grief of someone you thought wanted you suddenly turning their back on you, do you start to get a better sense of who to connect with? And then connecting with others, that becomes one. A completely different thing.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: It's huge. Love and freedom are basically two sides together.

  Sune Sloth: It's basically about. Another radical attitude that the other person's free will. You will never step on them. You don't want to come back, you don't want to step on them. Or if you experience bitterness, you work with it and let it go, you know inside yourself that you can move on, even if it would be terrible. And that life stops. Not that it does. So there are some indicators like before. She's throwing all her love into this guy, so there are some indicators you have to be aware of. And what are they? She couldn't do it in vain.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: No, but just as he can stand there and suddenly find someone. He's married someone with a great smile and a great arse. And there's a lot more family life in what he could have managed and maybe he didn't want so many children and whatnot, although it's the same way that he may have had a fantasy or an idea of what he wants and what she wants, so she must also make it clear. What does she actually want from a relationship? Because she may also think that of course he's going to go deeply morally question him. Or maybe he's just said that he wants to, because he's leaving Jo, because.

  Sune Sloth: You can't say that to a woman that you don't know no.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Unless he does. He is of course honest, but it will.

  Sune Sloth: With to.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: That thing about you looking 18 years old. Now he's 8 years old, when he We're working on trying to meet each other. We were also supposed to have a relationship, but he doesn't do anything. No of course, you shouldn't look at what he says and look at what he does. If he doesn't, if he doesn't do anything you and it's all the time, and he's constantly dodging, and then he goes to therapy once, then there's something wrong with the therapist, and then he doesn't know it. He doesn't prioritise it. You know, you know very well how he gets lost in things he prioritises.

  Sune Sloth: After you've got used to trying and you've charged up your set, you try to cram it into him. You've got it exactly right. But if you see the difference in a man who really knows, it's so obvious.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: So it screams to heaven. You can clearly see him there, who has no interest in you at all. He doesn't even realise it. It's because.

  Sune Sloth: You have no perspective. You can't see the nuances, because you haven't really experienced anything else, because men are uniform in a very broad sense.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Right now in a man's.

  Sune Sloth: History. And that's how men are. You have no problem lying that they want to see some things because there he is. So they know that if you say no to those questions, if you say I don't want to work on myself. And when I don't care that you don't feel, so you don't know that I don't know that I can't see the children, then he knows that they've come far enough in this soft, feminine society with kindergarten teachers and teachers. Us down to the point where firewood falls down. Next thing you know, she wants a divorce, right? So if you ask him a question where you can smell that it's obvious, you have to say yes, you can't count on it because he talks about it and he says all the right things in the right situation and you just feel a connection again, that there's a drive in him. You need to go from a you to a hate you. You need to see someone who has the drive. Then you might think, ‘That wasn't my husband. Yes, and if he doesn't have it, you can also choose to stay and work on it yourself. But that's just not what you'll get out of it. You're not going to get that experience of deeper connections, because it requires work on his part.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: You get to a place where he frustrates you less. You focus on her instead. Some women do that. It says he's a very good man and likes our life. And yes, it was a longing, but once sure I could find someone else. And you know, I actually want this life, so fine. Then I work with her around her longing, and then we set him free from it, and then she explores it in other ways. And then we work on the sadness that she can feel it possible and go deeper with a man, but that she probably won't experience that in this life. So it's also to say that, right? No one should ever define what a woman or man chooses, but those things can come up. I can now experience some women who come to a clear realisation. I'm not going to leave him. Now there's a sense that we have soul deals death. You can't know that until we go in and actually shed light on it. But then it emerges. If you dare, do it, and it will emerge over time. This particular situation for you. What should you do here, or what should you not do? No-one has the answers for you, but they are inside you. We can only help you find them.

  Sune Sloth: Clear up the ambiguity and confusion.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Quote So do others who also do that and all that exactly.

  Sune Sloth: When of course you switch off something we're talking about, but there's still something there too. If you as a woman are standing next to a man who opens up and you're not willing to, for example, work with your own distinctive character. Then we're almost there.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: If it's just as bad.

  Sune Sloth: And you're also not willing to train yourself to take responsibility. Because you get what you want.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: I actually say as a woman if a man starts to walk the road. For most women, I can tell if he's really important. If he's really closed and she starts to open up, she can't stand it. But if he's he's he's empathetic and he just has no drive to go deeper, then she can take the upper hand out of it herself and then she finds a way to be with him. But if you as a man start to open up and you have a woman who continues to hold on to her own immaturity when the man is more and more in his power. He doesn't accept the woman's. He doesn't take responsibility for her immaturity, so you won't be able to handle it? So either you say you're getting a divorce, or you say it first if you can't stand it. Because it's not because he demands it, it's his field. When he doesn't take on your immaturity, just say no, it's yours, it's not on me. It gets as violent as you like I can approach the desire to hit him, and he will not allow that either. Of course he won't. So you could say. What typically happens in a relationship, if one of them starts and it's developed like that to open up, which is what one is now and the other one stagnates, then the discrepancy between them becomes so big that there can be a lot of friction. Not delicious polarity, friction, but also frustration about why you were nurtured and meet me here and the rest. Yes, but it's actually your own immaturity that I have both for you. I don't know anymore because it's not loving. It's not loving to bear someone else's immaturity. It's hugely unloving because it inhibits their development well. They don't want to take on that development. But, I would say, that person has free will. But therefore you still shouldn't take their immaturity on you.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, you can be in a situation where what you say to them out of your own free will, find something to work with where it's actually legitimate and it's not safe. For example, it's like that, but where it just is. I can feel you closing off from me, it hurts my heart, it makes me sad. It's not something I can do anything about. I can be with you well, love you into it and as she withdraws. I also have other things to do. I also have to do the laundry. I also have to. You know, kids to pick up and so on, and she'll do it again and again and again and talk about how she'd like to go to therapy or try body therapy or come up with something or, well, she'll go out with a friend and they'll be in their pyjamas and the next day they'll be playing tarot cards and she'll have all the answers. And she's also just highly gifted in the car or something, and as a man, you can just feel it happening again and again, and it stays.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: She closes and withdraws.

  Sune Sloth: She shuts down and withdraws when you suddenly lose the connection.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And she's not curious to explore her part in it. It's just either there's something wrong, or you get the cause of it either way. Mette Miriam Sloth: What? Because there's something else. As a woman, you can also experience when you start to close. Because sometimes you can actually know that you're closing, because you know it yourself, but it can also turn round and you can also get to the point where you have a pulse and you can feel that something just hit you. I'll just go with it myself, then come back, and there's nothing wrong with us closing. We're all going to do that. It's more about what the hell do we do with it when we close? Well, how much responsibility do we take for it? Or ask for help to be loved into it?

  Sune Sloth: But there's something about loving someone else who doesn't take responsibility for their own process. It's exhausting.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: To hell with it.

  Sune Sloth: And you really have to be careful there. So if you open up in love to someone who isn't willing to take responsibility for themselves to get what there is to get up. Then you're going to wear yourself out on someone who ends up being sick with depression or mentally ill or just a wimp who collapses and suddenly can't. Because there's also a typical everyday life that needs to be taken care of. But it is possible to combine the two. That's what we've learnt. We also have the luxury of having every second week off for children. This means that we can work more intensely when something comes up.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, but we didn't have that in the beginning.

  Sune Sloth: We've managed that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: The children don't panic. We pushed the children together, so we had them staggered. They had a weekend together.

  Sune Sloth: Then there's a general thing in relation to men. The opening transformation, if you will. That is, on a biological physical level, you need to keep track of as many loose ends as possible. There's also a discipline there. There is for women too, because yes, and I know this from my many, many years of meditative practice, that's what comes up when you try to be calm. It's everything that's not resolved. That's because there are signs of unresolved problems.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And it soon has to be there until it's harmonised for there to be a cause. It's there to be resolved.

  Sune Sloth: So there's also something about going out into the physical world and clearing up all the loose ends.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: The more you tidy up your system, the more you'll feel a ripple effect. If you just explain that there's something from the past that's coming soon, some old relationship or something. There's a possible revisit and you can feel it, simply feel it coming in.

  Sune Sloth: It's actually something about getting used to being at the forefront of solving the problems that arise. And in an intermediate phase, you can create some systems that you follow to make sure you wing everything. It's also something you can notice that he's willing to take responsibility or let things sail.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Because he has to keep an eye on that with her too.

  Sune Sloth: Because there's truth in the fact that things sometimes solve themselves if you do nothing. But it's an expression of a kind of laziness, which is quite dangerous because it can also be dangerous. But it's actually an expression of not taking care of your peace of mind in relation to. And it requires a very sharp eye on where is mine, where is mine? I mean, if I have personal freedom, where is the limit of my personal responsibility? In many situations. And it comes down to making sure that the roof is in order and that practical things need to be organised and all that. So you get on top of it and keep working on it. The less distractions, the easier, the more energy. If you have the time and energy to allow the transformation to occur instead of it stalling on all the things that run underneath you and the fewest people. Unless the people involved realise how much is really just going on all the time, so they are constantly doing a do, do, do, do, do collapse or do, do, do, do and get stoned or do, do, do. Train hard, be completely relaxed. The trick is to just do a do. That's how you function as a starting point. The relational aspect doesn't matter at all. So if she says now we're going to the parents and now we're going to something like.

  Sune Sloth: You do it. But you can get to a point where you don't actually want to be a part of it, because these people don't tell me anything, and then they have to think what they think. It's just a shame. Or that all those events at a workplace where you sit and eat everything together, maybe, and you realise that you don't give a damn to be involved. No one tells you anything deeper than in the workplace. Then you may find that opting out of it comes at a small price in terms of you not networking and sucking up to people, but in return you can prioritise yours. Your love for your wonderful wife or with your children or in other ways do something that makes your heart sing. Instead of being so preoccupied with the next step in the hierarchy. So there's also something about the whole hierarchy thing is also something we don't get. We've talked about it before. It was completely inbuilt in my system. And it comes up as some very, very clear images of how it's inherited, that we're very aware of who's the dominant male and what? How can you risk being left out? Out of the good company? There is at least a constant preoccupation with who, who is who, who is looked up to and who can do something in the group? Who are the competences? And if you're a man and I've tried the labour market from start to finish and have also been promised jobs, and now that I have competence, recognition from others and the feeling of being a man standing on the edge of that and having no status.

  Sune Sloth: It's extremely uncomfortable. Something you have to work with. And then you've tried being sick and being an academic yourself, so you have to take some low point jobs where there's no recognition. Over to standing and then getting it just as there is now in having some skills that people think are everything. Again, you can fulfil a role. You're an instrument that can do something in a machine. Basically, you had to get to a point where you can pull yourself completely out of the commitment to it. You can put yourself into a role where you're probably playing the role because it creates something or someone else. You need a salary and something. But where you're not at all personally engaged and concerned with where you are in the hierarchy. And that's irrelevant, because your values have shifted to the fact that it's actually about the way you are with those you love, and also that what you create comes from the deep heart, which is opened in the process.

  Sune Sloth: And it can sound insanely abstract to a man what it means to live from the heart. Well, it was abstract to me, but the fact is that the entire energy field has no doubt that this is the way to go. There is nothing pulling in a thousand directions. There are no things that have not been taken care of, and you have the courage to do things that are risky in that state. And then you may find that 9 times out of 10, you pay off and follow your instincts and go with it. And then. But you're willing to take the risk and then you can start to accomplish. Then you can start having a mission with what you do. And it's not just because you need to get paid for it. Then you go from surviving to living. And I would also like to say to you men who are listening with us to you women. You're not going to be the fancy, masculine, feel, feel type. I don't do this at all. You do if you're stuck in feel, feel, feel and don't know what to do with it. You lose one. You don't lose your ability to make decisions or, on the contrary, you become.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Much sharper at making decisions. And you become much sharper in knowing when to take action and when to let dating play itself out?

  Sune Sloth: Yes, there was a lot of anxiety in my system about interfering in how things played out. I don't have that at all anymore. So it's more like that. It doesn't have anything outside my field. I let it play itself out. I have my responsibility, I go here, and that's what I play out. And then if the pieces don't fall into place, I just find another job. Of course, it requires that you. Of course, it also requires that you have earned a certain. That is, status in the labour market, because you can have the luxury and Petersen talks about this if you don't. You can't possibly be in a negotiation situation if you don't. If you have no other options. It's just a fact.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And that's where you start.

  Sune Sloth: That actually also applies in relation to a partner. If you're a hopeless wimp, or you think you don't have any options, you'll find yourself bending and adapting. That's for sure. We see more women willing to do this than men. Now still western, yes, I say.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Many women who begin their cancer home.

  Sune Sloth: Was many. What percentage of men are there compared to women that you see interested? Sune Sloth.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Do we have 4 5 per cent men and then and then the rest are women.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, we can do that too. Look at our followers on Facebook, it's six per cent men and four per cent women.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: But I also have a hypothesis that we talk a lot about throwing ourselves into tantra and the women and men who open women. I would actually say that we live in a time right now where it's women who open up men for him. We're laying down.

  Sune Sloth: Emphasise that when the woman works on herself, he suddenly wakes up and thinks, because there's something where she doesn't slap him, but doesn't get annoyed with him. She doesn't go up to him and demand that he work on himself. There's nothing like that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: No, but she starts to live.

  Sune Sloth: Powerful.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Powerful.

  Sune Sloth: And beautiful. Exactly. And then suddenly he wakes up and says What are you doing to me with that? And I'd like to try that too. And what about him, so maybe she could also talk to him about being a man? We have a chat, and since we've seen quite a few examples of him waking up in his snore bubble precisely because she doesn't slap him. Yes.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Actually, that's exactly what she doesn't do. It's actually the fact that she starts to take herself home and live as little as she can. She actually steps into the feminine pole by being inviting and inspiring rather than pushing him into it in powerlessness.

  Sune Sloth: But she also has to be able to make demands on his presence and his connection. Then he crawls, or she withdraws and says it, because it goes straight to the heart, as if you disappear. But now I'm doing something else. I don't like that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Then I go out into the woods, and now I move.

  Sune Sloth: I actually wanted to be with you, but now I don't dare have them, because I don't feel like I'm getting the relationship I need. Bye bye.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: You're sitting with your head down on the phone and you're grumpy or sad? And I don't know what to say to you, there's something wrong or if we should talk about it or if I can do anything for you. Do you grumble.

  Sune Sloth: Just, or you know, we've talked about that, or we can have a weekly chat or something. Can you call a therapist? We see some examples where men sometimes wake up to that.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: You actually have to be good enough and not necessarily sometimes leave him the whole relationship, but also just say that I'm going to go out and live. So then that depth, that intensity and that inspiration or that laughter. Or if you don't want to be a part of it, I can start to move out and live it in my own everyday life.

  Sune Sloth: Then we also see with the one who comes because she's the one who comes to me. I can't do it anymore, and I have to say that. It poses a dilemma for me when I talk to these men, because they sit and listen to the podcast, and they can say all the right words, but I can still be a bit like that. Is it because you're afraid of being abandoned and losing your family? Or is there actually a drive in you? And what I typically throw them into is actually finding out if they have a drive and making them realise that if they don't have it, the consequence is that she'll shit and possibly at some point, and then they can come back and say Well, I can see that if I don't work on this, I'll have the same bad relationship next time. I'll probably have to do something about it. That can also be an approach.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: There's the illusion that I'll just find someone else and everything will be fine. It gets broken, and that's really healthy.

  Sune Sloth: You can find a younger and more immature model and then start again.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: But she wants children.

  Sune Sloth: She wants children, so it starts all over again, and then you end up becoming a part of her dollhouse fantasy and don't get any special status in it. And that was delicious and the gallery. It starts to wane, and she also gets a certain age. So all that youth stuff, that's starting too. So it's just starting all over again, so you can do that. And then you've been a provider and breeder again. You can do that, but if you don't know that, if you want to meet a woman who is somewhere else, you have to match her. You both have to win it. Twice you had us the two people who have to say yes to it. That's what we're trying to do with. Part of this is to raise awareness that it's possible, that choice. That you can do it. And we don't want to glorify it. We don't believe that not everyone gets the gift of experiencing it in a relationship, but it is a special development path, if you can talk about development. There isn't. But the special opening path where the man counter-intuitively seeks something that he, instead of sitting down and meditating or or doing everything possible. Then he searches. He seeks the most difficult thing imaginable, namely the relational, and he allows her to be. He allows her it requires enormous trust in her allow her, will think, the mother is standing there. Allowing her to either be an oracle who sees him clearly when he's not standing there. Or she can be an immature little girl who demands all kinds of things from him that aren't true. So you have to be super attentive. But if she can be brought home, she can be almost an oracle, who can easily see through his bullshit and see when he exposes himself. To be able to dance to him.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: She has to do that.

  Sune Sloth: It has to be a woman, a maturity, a mature woman who has unfolded in that way. She has to dance to him, and she has to be able to make sure that he doesn't bite or that he doesn't take it on, and then she has to figure out what she's going to do, and then it's fun to stand and control and go out. So. Have we rounded up, do we have more to say on this topic at the moment, while closures.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: I think we've covered it very well.

  Sune Sloth: Has touched on what can she do and not do? And how much responsibility lies with him? That is to say.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: She doesn't actually. She's not responsible for his journey, but she is responsible for how she reacts to his journey.

  Sune Sloth: And she may well long for him to be open. She longs for everything he does for more than just a reason. She has no idea what she's getting into.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: To, and she doesn't know anything about that.

  Sune Sloth: And it can be quite violent, and it can be. Well, it can be enormously delicious if she longs for this and that. One thing I dream about for a long time as a little girl, it would be great if he was also emotionally open and all his grief comes up for all the times he is at.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: If the little girl sees it as one. Wouldn't it be great if he was filled with cheer, so he can see me all the time?

  Sune Sloth: But my job is actually to be able to be with him in that situation. Yes yes. So there's something there. I think you could round things off with, if you don't have a partner. And you're looking. As a woman, you would recommend.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: You have to look.

  Sune Sloth: If you want to go down the road with. But. How does she best prepare for it?

  Mette Miriam Sloth: She prepares herself best by surrendering to life and living life and by being in motion while also being able to manage her own life. She can tidy up her own life or buy her way in, whether it's an accountant, a craftsman. She actually has to live her life in a way where she doesn't need a man. But not where she has hardened. Because if she does need a man, she can get rid of him quickly, because he has to fulfil my needs if she does. If she is independent and can be in life and surrender to life and to the unknown, while she can keep structure and pay her bills on time and take care of if the company goes bust and get it closed properly. And if she can do that, she can do it because she wasn't great at it all. But does she have the capacity to get her fucking life together when he comes to rescue her from something? And that's why she can yearn.

  Sune Sloth: She's in one of those. phase in her life where she's considering having children.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Since she has to consider she actually has to be there, she has to be careful not to smoke. I manipulation she has to lay her cards completely down on the table, and that is, if she meets if she is on dates say and would like to have children. If you have children, it's good to have a partnership where you agree. We're both at a certain age and we'll have children together. Just be open about what you're doing, because he has someone.

  Sune Sloth: Illusion that there is a deep connection. You can read that to someone while he has no one at all. He has no trauma and no closure to open up. He's emotionally present and he can give it to me and see what it's like, and you know, he can accommodate my changeability and when you have it.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And then you also have to at the same time. At the same time you have.

  Sune Sloth: Prioritised that the relational is the most important. So there's a clear choice in a woman's mind about whether relationships are more important than having children. With him, yes.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: So you actually have to go in and work with your great longing to have children. Is it your soul's impulse, or is it your body that just wants you that's very big? Because I've seen women who have had them, I'm not. I would never think of telling a woman that she should be having a baby, never interfere. But I can easily stand in the light and feel bad about having a child with this man you don't love and have left three times. Now you're speculating about having a second child with him because it's smarter than finding another man to have a child with? Have you told him you're doing it? Can you stand up for yourself?

  Sune Sloth: Is it your goal to complain that he's awful? And at the same time, she's seriously considering having child number four.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And very often.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, almost in with the baby. No, and thus.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Is this what you're saying to me right now, you should be able to say to his face that if he says I feel the same way. But let's just get the kids out of the way, because I want to have two kids too, so we've made a deal, so it's fair.

  Sune Sloth: But then don't throw away any expectations about sex. You can also be less honest and say I don't want to have sex with you if you make a partnership. So the whole problem is that when you make a man sex as part of the package.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: I don't want to say. It's not part of the package, so it has to be somewhere else. Well, I actually have to. We actually have to be brutally honest, because otherwise we end up manipulating. So I will. I definitely want to. You can work on that too. You can work with your body. You can have a body that biologically begins to hunger to bring children into the world while at the same time having a soul. I don't want children while you have other parts that love your freedom. If you don't have children, you can. There you can also see if you can work with the sadness that lies in the body about not being able to use the power to procreate that the body also has. And you can lift that up and use it on something else. Or you can go in and work with an okay or for example. You can feel the call of a deep soul and have a child. But that part of me that could have, there are some freedom things, and there are some things I'm restricted, so you can work with that, so there's no right and wrong. It's just bringing consciousness into the shit, so you don't kid yourself that it's not just a dollhouse fantasy we have. If only we get a bigger utility room, then there will be love and there is no there is no house, no house, a project or a dog or something that makes you love each other more deeply, or there won't be a child that gets.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: I love each other more deeply. A lot of divorces come in the wake of children, because children are a burden - a stress burden too. So if you're already arguing and then you have a child, it's going to get much worse and it's not going to get better because it didn't get better. Now your kids have siblings, they can start playing together. No, many children will kill each other. That's because you get them too early in a row. So it's just to say that there are a lot of myths around this like when. Where we women also have to take responsibility for the fact that we can have a dollhouse fantasy with some idyllic family with a picket fence and 6 children. And then that man and really just an extra who runs around doing things and then moves on. You don't want to be too annoying, and he only wants to fuck and make babies, and he might not have said yes to that. So if that's your dream, say it out loud. And rather than wrapping it up in the fact that it's deep connection and love. We don't know that.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, there you have the man. That's where she knows, like he knows, that he has to say yes to. You know, self-development and therapy, and we have to work on things and talk together. So he knows. Or she knows that if he says I don't want to have sex with you other than children, it's a dealbreaker.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: So she doesn't say that.

  Sune Sloth: But that's where she has to be honest and.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes, you're absolutely right.

  Sune Sloth: Well, I send a good one.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Care for you, but I think it was smart to have a second child. And do you want to be a part of that and then what you do? I won't interfere.

  Sune Sloth: And I think it's a fantasy, because to imagine that neither women nor men stand here honestly, because if you're there, you're so wrapped up in identifying yourself with that. Yes, yes, you can't bring yourself to do it, because you know that. It's hard to get out of it.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: It's very difficult to enjoy this, because there's some of it, but then you have to.

  Sune Sloth: You make the realisation yourself. And then you as a man can also say Okay, she's not one. She's not crazy about me in the way she was at first. And she doesn't seek me out, and if I don't push myself, nothing will happen. It's a sign that she's not interested in sex with you, and if she doesn't open herself up and invite her. Then she's not interested in sex with you is probably quite likely.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: But she may well be interested in having more children. But you can. You may well have got a little more than a sperm donor role here, and if you're okay with that. Fair enough, but that.

  Sune Sloth: Is because you get rolled into some fantasies that you can't let go of. That's what they worry you about really. Basically, the family goes, and she gets the kids mostly, and then there's trouble with that, and then you get lonely. And then you have to live. The whole thing he's not ready for, because he hasn't prepared himself for the relational aspect, for that. On an inner level or for being in life and what's to come, he withdraws and takes a stand on that. And sticks around, even though he thinks she's a crane and annoying and labelled and annoying as hell. And some women actually hit their husbands too. Yes, it's actually something we don't talk about very much. But it was surprising how often we talk about it.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: If you can say that the hard violence in relationships is mostly women. But in relation to being smacked around.

  Sune Sloth: So being hit in such a very physical way shows that you're not really worth listening to or having anything to do with. Out of conflicts about who should do things with children? And you're not good at that either, and you should just leave it alone. And things like that. It can seem a bit hopeless.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: But then we sat down. I need I need to?

  Sune Sloth: Yes, but then.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: I'm tired. I am now that we're about to finish. This is where we need to shed some light on what we fantasise. Love is, and what can love really be? Love, freedom. Honesty is very much connected. Love in fantasies. I think it's like this, where you statistically go up in It has nothing to do with love. It's the little girl fantasy or one or his can be cheating with when you know. She'll always be young and hot and wear high heels for me and stuff like that. Or she'll never know. She knows if she's ever angry with me. I want a woman who is always smiling, happy and sweet and open, warm and willing, and who doesn't age and who always makes something of herself and who is never angry with me. So his fantasies are also completely hopeless.

  Sune Sloth: Yes, who somehow knows him anyway. Yes, I regret shutting him down.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And was at high heat and everything he has. Then she always wants him.

  Sune Sloth: He just delivers what's in the culture. He doesn't have to.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: So both genders can agree on some extremely inappropriate handed-down fantasies that basically need to be matured. Love is not some sugary, pink, shimmering thing. Love is also brutal because it is.

  Sune Sloth: Is brutally honest. It is.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Brutal honesty. Mette Miriam Sloth: Yes.

  Sune Sloth: It's the most loving thing you can do to him, so to speak. But it's a bit like two homosexuals who find a lesbian couple and then they make a car where there are clear lines and all that. The thing that doesn't mess around is one thing above them all. They're not going to have sex.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: And I get involved in gentle sex too. It's actually the most loving thing women can do.

  Sune Sloth: I just have to say, as you've experienced it after a divorce where you still live together. If you don't do anything about it and you're still living with your ex-wife, very few women do. Very few women will want to have a deeper relationship with you because what if you can't figure out how to end it? It's a red flag all over the world that you as a woman can go out and find someone who cares when you're in that situation. And the question is, is there depth in that? That's debatable, and there might not be, but a woman who wants to go deep with you, and she'll expect you to get a handle on those things and that constellation of socialising with your ex-wife and your good friends. And it's going so well. Where is she going to fit into that? If she sees you two really want each other and you move in together, why does she have to be with your ex-wife or what? What did you have in mind? So you have to think about that too, you know, when you choose these constellations of letting your ex-wife live with you, or you live with each other, or whatever it is, or you stay at home. You have zero chance. You can share it and you can start something. But if you don't get your housing situation sorted out and get that relationship settled in a way that doesn't interfere with your presence together. Then a mature woman will say no thanks. Jun You have to guess Life.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: But it's again a brutal honesty you actually have to look. If you then choose that constellation. We like each other. We don't have sex, but now we have children together. They should be very soon, then you would enjoy those things. That's okay, if we make it, and if we then get new respective partners. It will do something to this setup, you actually have to find out. And how honest can you talk to each other and how willing are you to let go of each other when that mould has worn off? It's just that all constellations have their own lifespan.

  Sune Sloth: And of course, there may also be other constellations that are more rare and some that women find it fine together. And there it is. There are very few detached houses that are designed for two families to live side by side without seeing each other.

  Speaker3: It can be done.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Maybe, we'll see it in the future, but some of it.

  Sune Sloth: And as usual, we dive down where the pain is greatest, so there may well be positive variants out there. We're not random, but we have an affinity towards trying to grab hold of where it's hardest and then see what it can lift.

  Speaker3: Where, when.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: You can see that there are themes, difficult themes and gothic knots that return in the relationship, so it's common human. So if you're in a relationship, you'll bump into some of these things. Will it lie to you? That's what we're interested in. How can we go in and work to redeem or find ways through what seems to be impossible?

  Sune Sloth: Now we've talked about a general closure of the man. There are also a number of things that of course have to do with relationships and how he was treated as a child.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Safe in another podcast.

  Sune Sloth: That's another one, but we're not going into it just to say that we've tried to address something that is probably generally in between. Yes, yes, there is.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Cultural influences, trauma, childhood and poetry. There's incest and tinnitus.

  Speaker3: Has a previous.

  Sune Sloth: Life. There can be all kinds of crap, and it's not so important what it is, because you can work with it all. The important thing is really, wait! What's yours? Funny word for how you feel right now and talk about and long for. I honestly didn't understand the word. I don't think you realise what it is. But it's such a deep longing somewhere from the deep heart, from somewhere in your being, in a germination where you can feel that there must be more to life here that can be possible. It can't just be this, it's something like that. It can't just be this. There has to be something else, there has to be more to it. I want more depth, something more beautiful that is possible. And it's there. It's possible and you follow it. Hjørring. And the country keeps pursuing it and keeps pursuing it. The fact that there is another so-called wimp, then you are willing to take the consequences of it. Then it's possible. And men are somewhat better off than women right now, because the number of women who really want this compared to the number of men is relative. It's very, very skewed. And me.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Would say right now, and.

  Speaker3: I.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Definitely don't think it does I think, I think, I think. I think so much will happen in the next 10 years, so we can't predict what the future will look like in these crazy crazy and wonderful times we live in.

  Sune Sloth: To stand at the beginning of something. So yes.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: Exactly. But I would say that if we just relate to the here and now, if you're a man, you're someone who has started to open up. For whatever reason, you have a lot of women to choose from. So find a journey. If you're a woman looking for a man, there are a few men.

  Sune Sloth: Bored, but that's just the way it is. Fact Yes, so it becomes even more important for a woman to be able to stand alone and walk the road. Because the sexual, deep and profound encounter in the heart, which is deeply, deeply ecstatic and can be very transformative, but also healing, is of course absolutely fantastic, but it requires that there is someone to do it with who can.

  Speaker3: Look at you. Then stay.

  Mette Miriam Sloth: It's just flat and tame and boring.

  Sune Sloth: Who can see you and who can, who can feel deep, deep inside you, down there where you don't even notice yourself and who you trust and open up to. And then you unfold even more and discover even more about how wonderful you are as a woman and as a being. So it can be done. I think women's longing in a higher octave awakens men. With those words, we'll end here. Episode 27 and thank you for listening.

  Speaker3: Thank you for now. Bye bye.